Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

In regards to God's existence and the reality of Jesus Christ radically changing human history..

Jesus changed nothing. What, be kind
to each other, do unto others as you
would have them do unto you, that
changed the world? It's not even
original to Jesus.

No, the jack booted thugs of the
CHURCH of Jesus changed the
world. They obliterated all the
pagan religions thru coersion
and force, stole their property,
confiscated their holidays as
their own, and forced them to
convert or die.

Do you know why the early
Xtions were persecuted and
even thrown to the lions? It's
because they were intolerant
jerks. Rome was very tolerant
of all the various pagan religions
because they got along with
each other and didn't cause
trouble.

Here come the arrogant Xtions,
telling all the pagans they're
wrong and they better convert.
They quickly became hated as
bullies and it was great fun for
the Romans to see them on their
knees praying to their weak god
to be saved while the animals tore
them to pieces.

Then Xtionity became the state
religion and it all changed. Jesus
had little to do with anything,
it was the Gestapo minded
Church of his that was now well
funded that changed everything.

Wow Bob, I can see you are really confused and hurting about something. In a strange way I'm glad you have Jesus Christ to rail against, persecute, lie about, spit upon, and demean. He's used to it and willingly takes your abuse as He did so many years ago. He's a big God and He can take it. He loves you and always will. Know this as well; Jesus will always forgive you and whatever guilt or unhappiness or pain that leads you to think the way you do, He can heal it. He died to take away whatever pains you so and rose from the dead to give you hope. Have hope and know you are loved.

Quote: FrGamble

Wow Bob, I can see you are really confused..I'm glad you have Jesus Christ to rail against, persecute, lie about, spit upon, and demean.

I'm not confused about anything. I
did it because I knew you would make my
point perfectly. This is the reason I'm not
interested in discussing a book with
you. I present my reasons for why
Xtions were persecuted, and what do
you do? Do you have a valid reason
or a source? Noooo. You attack me,
call me a liar, and go off on some
holier than thou rant.

Why would I want to subject myself
to this boorish behavior by discussing
a book with you. You just did what
you said in a PM you would NOT do.
You cannot help yourself, obviously.
You were trained that you're 100%
right in every situation. Now imagine
it's 1400 AD and Europe is crammed
full of such men, as priests. God help
anybody who got in their way, only
there was no god, the priests were
the gods.

Okay so your purposefully bullied me by such hateful false rhetoric about persecuted Christians being bullies, I get it. So you at least recognise what you wrote was a fabrication meant to upset me, that's good. Actually I sadly think you believe what you said. I'm sorry where are your sources again? Right, you are spewing your opinion yet you won't accept mine. I reiterate my previous post.

Well anyway the historical documents written about the Christians by ancient Jewish historians and Roman historians paint a very different picture. As do the accounts of the early martyrs, for example St. Justin Martyr. Here you can read explicitly what the early Christians were charged with and Justin's defense. They were not persecuted for being bullies! Where did you hear that? Does that make logical sense to you that the Roman Empire was worried about poor uneducated bullies?

Wouldn't discussing a book help both of us stay on target and have to better defend and support our beliefs? If you want something more than just your unsubstantiated vitriol and my hamfisted attempts to point out your gross errors we need a mediator or at least a common text to push and pull against rather than each other.

Quote: FrGamble

So you at least recognise what you wrote was a fabrication meant to upset me,

I fabricated nothing. They were
disliked by average Romans
because they didn't participate
in the holidays or burn incense
to Caesar, who was considered
god. Xtions were cliquish and
secretive, and always predicting
doom and gloom end of the
world nonsense. And yes, they
were bullies. It was their way or
no way, take it or leave it. So
when they were publicly
persecuted in the arena, you
bet the Romans filled the
place and cheered on the
lions.

You don't consider the Church
forcing Jews to convert in
the Inquisitions bullying? C'mon,
it's very template for bullying.

I thought earlier you said the Romans were pretty open to lots of different gods being worshipped and you also mentioned that you think the early Christians still celebrated the pagan holidays but changed their meaning. I'm not really sure if you are clear on why the early Christians were persecuted so much. You seem to think it is because they were bullies? I just don't think that is true. Do you have anything to support that. All the ancient historians describe the Christians as meek. St. Ignatius of Antioch writes to his community on the way to his martyrdom to not do anything to try to save him.

Quote: FrGamble

*EXCERPT* Do you have anything to support that

We ask the same of you re: the existence of a "God"

Quote: aceofspades

We ask the same of you re: the existence of a "God"

Yes there is much to aupport the existence of God. The cosmological argument, the contingency argument, the nedd for a first cause, the unmoved mover, modern cosmology, the impossibility of an actual infinite regress, that there is something rather than nothing, the personal experience and testimony of the vast majority of human beings throughout history, miracles, life, consciousness, intellegence of humanity, universal moral norms, beauty of nature, fine tuning of universe's laws, etc.

Quote: FrGamble

Yes there is much to aupport the existence of God. The cosmological argument, the contingency argument, the nedd for a first cause, the unmoved mover, modern cosmology, the impossibility of an actual infinite regress, that there is something rather than nothing, the personal experience and testimony of the vast majority of human beings throughout history, miracles, life, consciousness, intellegence of humanity, universal moral norms, beauty of nature, fine tuning of universe's laws, etc.

Ok, assuming arguendo, that you are correct in that there must be an unmoved mover, why is your "God" more believable than other "supreme beings", or creation by emergence, creation by world parents, creation from the cosmic egg, creation by Earth divers? You cannot disprove those just like you cannot prove that your "God" did it