Simple question?
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July 14th, 2019 at 10:37:17 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
If you were laid back about it, didn't get in peoples faces like the Xtions did. One thing they really didn't like was the constant end of days thing that was Jesus main theme. Pagans weren't like that at all, they were more upbeat and friendly. Even pagans today are that way, they don't have a stick up their arse like know it all Xtions do.
Wow, you really don't know your history. That came much later, after the Church was the official state religion. In the first 300 years they just ignored the pagan holidays.
Xtions were mistrusted and considered dangerous because they flat out refused to participate in the pagan rituals and do sacrifices to the emperor who was considered god. The were also looked at as cannibals because they 'ate' the body of Christ in their own ceremonies. They were considered dangerous and because they ignored the Roman gods, they were blamed for pissing the gods off and everything bad that happened was blamed on the Xtions. Secretive, cliquish, anti-social, anti everything pagan, end of the earth preaching, cannabalistic, even incestual because they greeted each other with a kiss on the mouth. Always bullying people into converting. They were reviled and hated and looked at as a 'secret society'. I can totally see that. Even today they act that way. Look how a church will shun one of it members for breaking rule. They ignore him like he doesn't exist, he's no longer a member of the secret society. I've seen it happen. Writing in about A.D. 196, Tertullian said, “The Christians are to blame for every public disaster and every misfortune that befalls the people. If the Tiber rises to the walls, if the Nile fails to rise and flood the fields, if the sky withholds its rain, if there is earthquake or famine or plague, straightway the cry arises: ‘The Christians to the lions!’” If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
July 14th, 2019 at 10:44:40 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
These argumenta support God's existence but you are correct in that it doesn't point directly to Christanity. You asked specifically about God's existence and there is plenty that points unquestionably to yes. To determine who God is we have to depend on revelation. Human reason alone can be assured that God exists. Who God is, His attributes, how to worship, etc. are different questions. Your statements about multiple God's, "world parents", eggs, multiverse, etc. don't escape any of the arguments that show clearly that there is no infinite regress or that something cannot come from nothing or the contingency argument. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
July 14th, 2019 at 10:58:29 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Bob, I don't know how you can be more laid back than a group of people who stayed to themselves scared to worship or act in public and worshiping in underground cemeteries. Christians were not walking the streets biblically preaching, that was a death sentence. As you mentioned early Christians began thinking that Jesus would return soon so it wasn't like they were too interested in worldly power or changing the Roman Empire. As you mentioned they mostly stayed to themselves and hidden. Nero and others did blame them for the troubles of Rome, mostly caused by Nero and other's evil and selfish actions. Do you think Nero and others were correct in blaming the foreigner and poor Christians for the burning of Rome or if the Tiber flooded? I'm glad you know what the Christians were falsely accised of and you are right. Tertullian and Justin both speak of being considered cannabals and even of having orgies because the Eucharist was called the "Agape feast" of Love Feast. I guess you are siding with the Romans in that Christians were dangerous and destructive. Do you really believe this? What happened to Western civilization when it embraced Christianity. Was it destroyed? Or did it begin universities, hospitals, and begin the flourishing of human civilization through art, music, and law? What do you think? You are also right in that behavior of shunning or treating those who leave badly is a sign of a cult. There are still some fringe Christian denominations that do this today and you would be right to avoid them. However, if that is your only experience of Christianity then I would hope you don't judge everyone by your bad experiences. Visit a mainline Protestant Church or Catholic Church to see healthy communities. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
July 14th, 2019 at 12:13:55 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Yet they got new converts all the time. How did they do that if they weren't talking to people and converting them. They were reviled for their end of days melodrama, but that's how they got converts. Better hurry, time is almost up, the end is near. It's what Jesus railed about for 3 years, he had an apocalyptic ministry. Something most Xtions totally ignore. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
July 14th, 2019 at 12:43:41 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | How did they get converts indeed!?! That is a great question! It is kind of miraculous when you think about it. A small group of ragtag mostly uneducated poor folks hiding underground whose punishment to join them was to be fed to lions. Yet not only did they grow, but eventually the most powerful Empire the world has seen, who hated Christians, became Christian itself. It is nothing short of amazing. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
July 14th, 2019 at 2:14:18 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
They got them the same way they get them now, by talking to people. Nothing miraculous about it. In fact, I've seen the math broken down and the religion expanded exactly as it should have given the huge amount of time involved. Hundreds and then thousands of years. From my understanding they hid their services, but they were out in public every day with everybody else, working and socializing and talking to people. Of course they got converts, people are always looking for something new. My own wife has switched church's 6 times in the last 20 years. Each one is different from the last. Different faces, different ways of doing things. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
July 14th, 2019 at 8:47:40 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | So people weren't forced into it. Conversion happened naturally as others observed the lives of these Christians people realized they weren't evil or messed up like the authorities claimed they were and they had something special, new, and different. A God who loved them and sacrificed for them rather than the other way around. We agree on this Bob. What I think is still miraculous is why other religions that do the same didn't have the same success. Heck eventually the entire Roman Empire was converted and from this conversion the beginning of the glorious Western civilization began (the destruction of which seems to hinge on whether or not people leave the faith). “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
July 14th, 2019 at 9:22:31 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
It happened more like this. Say one person converted one other person every 2 years for 10 years. That's not very many. But if those 5 converted 5 more in 10 years, they all converted 5, and so on, in 200 years you have a couple million Xtions. That's how Amway did it and it only took them 20 years. What I think is still miraculous is why other religions that do the same didn't have the same success. Nothing miraculous about it at all. The other religions like Hinduism and Buddhism didn't have the same jackbooted slash and burn business plan the Xtions did. Of course they grew, they bulldozed all the pagan religions into the ground. Islam had the same methods and they grew like stinkweed in a vacant lot too. John Rockefeller, always the good Baptist, used the Xtion plan and drove every competitor out of business and Standard Oil controlled 90% of the crude oil in the world. Nothing 'miracuous' about it. Congress eventually stopped Rochefeller, but there was nobody to stop Rome and the Church. Until they finally went too far, got too bloated and the schism happened. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
July 14th, 2019 at 9:46:52 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Well I think that model of building relationships and people seeing hiw wonderful Christianity is was how it works and I'm glad you recognize it. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
July 14th, 2019 at 10:50:12 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
It works for most cults, nothing special about Xtionity. People are very gullible and always looking for something new. They like belonging to groups and being told what to do. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |