Simple question?

Thread Rating:

December 31st, 2015 at 4:37:13 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 145
Posts: 3173
Quote: AZDuffman
It surely beats the "predestined" thing some sects have. When I heard that for the first time I was amazed.


That isn't just some sect belief but the vast majority of Christians I've met believe that. There are plenty of bible verses they can use to substantiate it.

Quote: Matthew 24:13-14
Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 31st, 2015 at 5:15:16 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 6765
Quote: Wizard
That isn't just some sect belief but the vast majority of Christians I've met believe that. There are plenty of bible verses they can use to substantiate it.


When I was told about it I was told it was an early American Protestant thing. Not just that you have to make the cut but that if you are not chosen at birth you will never make it, ever. I am pretty sure they do not preach this line anymore. What you might be hearing is that they feel "chosen." Or I could be wrong, I have never met anyone who believes the predestined thing. I've mostly lived in heavy-Catholic towns all my life.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
December 31st, 2015 at 5:31:42 PM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 3
Posts: 818
What you're describing is Calvinism as in John Calvin. The puritans were Calvinistic in their soteriology (how a person actually comes to be saved) Calvin said people are so depraved they are unable to even seek God on their own let alone become saved by any action on their part. Rather, God predestined from eternity past (not at birth) the "elect" that would come irresistibly to Christ. There's way more to it but that's the gist.
December 31st, 2015 at 5:34:53 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 6765
Quote: pew
What you're describing is Calvinism as in John Calvin. The puritans were Calvinistic in their soteriology (how a person actually comes to be saved) Calvin said people are so depraved they are unable to even seek God on their own let alone become saved by any action on their part. Rather, God predestined from eternity past (not at birth) the "elect" that would come irresistibly to Christ. There's way more to it but that's the gist.


That rings a bell. I somewhat agree on people being so depraved, from reading divorce paperwork alone.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
December 31st, 2015 at 5:51:33 PM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 3
Posts: 818
Quote: AZDuffman
That rings a bell. I somewhat agree on people being so depraved, from reading divorce paperwork alone.
Good observation. TOTAL depravity, 100% depraved sin loving God hating reprobates deserving strict judgement of a righteous and holy God. That's the T in TULIP. Limited atonement is the L which means that Christ did not die for the whole world, just the elect. I skipped the U. For now......
December 31st, 2015 at 6:29:57 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 110
Posts: 11582
Quote: pew
Limited atonement is the L which means that Christ did not die for the whole world, just the elect. .


That myth actually makes more sense
than the myth that he died for everybody.
Have you met 'everybody'? You want
to spend 5min with most of them,
let alone eternity? This whole thing
wasn't very well thought out.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 1st, 2016 at 3:43:06 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 328
Posts: 11319
Quote: Wizard
They mean saved from a fate in hell.


So I'm right and it's all about toadying up to an evil deity, in order to be "saved" from that deity's torture chamber?

How's that different from a protection racket?
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
January 1st, 2016 at 3:44:43 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 328
Posts: 11319
Quote: pew
What you're describing is Calvinism as in John Calvin. The puritans were Calvinistic in their soteriology (how a person actually comes to be saved) Calvin said people are so depraved they are unable to even seek God on their own let alone become saved by any action on their part. Rather, God predestined from eternity past (not at birth) the "elect" that would come irresistibly to Christ. There's way more to it but that's the gist.


That strikes me as true to Jehovah's character as portrayed by the various authors of the Bible. A sadistic deity who'd create people for the purpose of torturing them forever.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
January 1st, 2016 at 4:45:53 PM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 3
Posts: 818
Quote: Nareed
That strikes me as true to Jehovah's character as portrayed by the various authors of the Bible. A sadistic deity who'd create people for the purpose of torturing them forever.
They would respond with something like: a sovereign deity who creates people for His own good pleasure and righteously judges them. A reprobate non believer can never understand Gods sovereignty and therefore could never make sense of Gods judgement of the wicked and would think God to be a real jerkwad.
January 1st, 2016 at 4:48:05 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 328
Posts: 11319
Quote: pew
They would respond with something like: a sovereign deity who creates people for His own good pleasure and righteously judges them.


I don't mind their delusions, when they're not trying to impose them on everyone else.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.