Where is FrG?
June 29th, 2018 at 7:19:26 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I don't think this is true at all! Where did you get this?
This is just crazy Bob. First of all the question isn't about if they can prove there is a God. We have already both agreed that you cannot prove this in a mathematical sense. The question is are they trustworthy and is their testimony in line with the facts. Again you might do good to keep it in the context of a court of law. If someone testifies that they saw the defendant murder someone you can't prove that this is true. However, if they say the defendant was red headed when he is blond or that he witnessed this on a night when the defendant was not possible there you can rule out the testimony. You want to judge if there is a God or not, but you have only asked if we can take the testimony of a terrorist as correct, when it is obviously not.
That is the worst and most illogical thing you can do. You are projecting here. You don't want there to be a God so you dismiss the testimony out of hand because anyone mentions God. That would be like dismissing the testimony against your defendant and when asked, "why you are dismissing it?" You respond because it says something bad about the defendant. It doesn't work that way. You can't just dismiss the testimony of people because you don't like what they say or because you don't believe it. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
June 29th, 2018 at 8:22:46 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
I dismiss it as evidence, you bet. Same as I would in court if two eye witnesses had opossing stories. I would have no choice, they both can't be right, they both might be wrong, in fact. So I would look for other evidence, of which in this case, there is none. I only brought this up because you mention so many times the huge importance of your personal testimony as evidence. Let me assure you, that guy with the vest of dynamite going to get his reward of 72 virgins, is every bit as convinced his god story is true as you are of your story. To an atheist all god stories have to be weighed as equal, we have no favorites in this race. One god story is as good as the next one, and they all go into the file marked 'unsubstantiated testimony'. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
June 29th, 2018 at 8:37:06 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Why have you so quickly abandoned your good advice to use reason and critical judgment? This is a much better way to determine the truth than just dismissing both. I agree that they can't both be right and they could both be wrong. Has it ever come to your mind that one could be right? Use your reason and critical judgment using the facts to determine that, not just your prejudice or your desire for them both to be wrong.
Good, that is exactly what you should do. In the case you are talking about there is obvious evidence. Does the Muslim who wants to blow up the bus actually correspond to the teachings of Islam. You quoted some pretty radical junk earlier without any source or reference from the Koran to support you but when called out on it as fake you just give up. Look at real evidence to the reality of their claims. Look at the people themselves, the documents, their Scriptures, authorities in the religion, your common sense, etc. There is lots of evidence to show that someone who claims God is telling them to blow up a bus is wrong.
No you originally brought it up with the old tired argument that an atheist is like a believer who just believes in one less God. When shown how ridiculous this argument was you went on this tangent and dropped everything you said earlier. I assume you will soon drop this argument as well because you have been shown to be wrong again.
Correction: to an atheist who is not using his reason or critical judgment all God stories have to be weighed as equal. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
June 30th, 2018 at 12:23:52 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Reason and judgement points to no god existing. Opposite personal testimony from worshipers of the same god point to no god existing. God isn't a guessing game, it's not comparing one persons story with another's story, and figuring out which one makes sense. That's not evidence of anything except your ability to be clever and fool yourself. Real evidence is doing the math and attaching the airfoils to the body and adding thrust and having it fly just like the math said it would. And being able to repeat it as often as you want. Of anything in the universe you should be able to do that with, of all things, god should be able to pass any test with ease. There should be no argument, there should never be any doubt. But all there can be is doubt, because there is a total lack of evidence. I've said this before. You act like god is hiding behind a bush, waiting to pop out at us if we just look for him properly. What kind of god is that, no real god would act that way. But a fictional god you made up would.. Some people need a god in their lives, some don't. It's really not any more complicated than that. Secularism is growing at a rate faster than any religion. They estimate that in 20 years half the world will be secular. We have outgrown the need for mythical gods. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
June 30th, 2018 at 5:15:44 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Actually they point directly to God existing.
How do you come to such a conclusion? We have opposite personal testimony about God, where does that leave us? Why do two people who think different things about a subject cancel each other out? This makes no sense.
That is what a staggering amount of life is and of course it is one big part of the discussion about whether God exists and who is this God. Don't you do this dozens of times each day? We compare one persons story with another and we figure out which one makes the most sense based on facts, reason, and critical judgment. We do this with politics all the time.
Oh Bob, come on now. There is more to life than what you can experiment on and repeat. There are other ways to reach knowledge than the scientific method. Use your noggin, reason and think. Philosophy can discover truths science cannot and vice versa. To have such a materialistic view of the universe is to blind yourself to such things as love and art and the supernatural.
It is easier than that. Remember God wants to be found, it is us (or more specifically you) who is hiding in a bush and won't come out. Read the Genesis account of the Fall again. It is God who searches for us when we are lost and we hide from Him. Come out of hiding and He will find you, not the other way around.
This is such an nonintellectual approach. You have boiled down the question of God to nothing but desire and feeling. Whether or not we think we need God or not is irrelevant to whether or not He exists. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
June 30th, 2018 at 5:52:38 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
This is all I'm responding to, all the other points you made I have already addressed, it seems, dozens of times. Why would I do so yet again. "Actually they point directly to God existing.." Of course this is nothing new, I've heard it from you for years. This is where I say, if they were pointing at god, there would be no atheists, only dumb people ignoring god. This is where you say, that's exactly what's happening, Bob, you are right for a change. Dumb people ignoring the obvious god! I chime in with, you're a god salesman, what else are you going to say. You aren't looking for truth, you're looking for ways to make your product, god, more appealing. This is what they pay you for. The vows you took do not let you sway very far from the teachings of the Church. There is an agenda behind everything you say, so your words must be read with that always in mind. You will always defend what you've been taught, the Church demands it and that's your job. Truth is a pathless land, but not in your world. Some people like it that way, no need to think, all the heavy lifting has been done for you. You can sit back and relax.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
June 30th, 2018 at 6:26:59 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
That's okay, I know this is one of your code phrases for you are stumped.
I have never said this! Have we been talking for so long and you actually think you have heard this?!? I just can't believe it. You are not a dumb person and you most certainly are not ignoring the discussion about God. First of all you need to keep in mind the definition of atheism, which you conveniently forget off and on. Most smart people will acknowledge the possibility of the existence of God and even recognize there is something higher and above our understanding but we can't really know anything about it; we call these people agnostic. Atheists deny the possibility of the existence of God. I put you in that camp unless you correct me. This atheism idea has no merit, but it doesn't mean you are dumb or ignoring God. It is held because it is an easier way to live, because of bad experiences people have had with religion and believers, because life is very difficult or some tragedy has made it very hard to reconcile with the idea of a loving God, or people were brought up believing half-truths, myths, or philosophical arguments that purportedly show there is no God. I mean come on there is no real argument using reason or critical judgment or evidence that points away from God. I would be glad for you to show me something if you disagree. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
June 30th, 2018 at 8:19:08 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Code for boredom. We discussed all of it so many times, we are just runnin in circles now. New subject needed. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
June 30th, 2018 at 8:35:50 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | I understand Bob. Read any good books lately? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
June 30th, 2018 at 8:53:35 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Empty Mirror, about zen. No interest to you.. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |