Newtown, Conn

December 18th, 2012 at 1:51:03 PM permalink
MidwestAP
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1
Posts: 22
Quote: Ayecarumba
In the interest of fairness and balance, here is a report of a youngster who defended herself and her home using a rifle. Not surprisingly, these stories don't get much airtime.

And to be fair, she didn't need a semi-automatic weapon to defend herself either.
December 18th, 2012 at 1:59:55 PM permalink
MidwestAP
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1
Posts: 22
Quote: AZDuffman
So you are saying 4 incidents in a nation of 300 million is some kind of epidemic
?

If they ban guns and instead crack skulls with a baseball bat then what?

And we have a society that says banning drugs doesn't work yet ban ing guns will?

Seriously your chances of dying in a car accident are higher. Worry about something worth worrying about.

Drugs are a largely self-inflicted, to each his own and I have little sympathy for those who use.

The four instances mentioned are the larger recent events. According to wikipedia "Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it. Higher rates can be found in developing countries and those with political instability."

Also, "The incidence of homicides committed with a firearm in the US is much greater than most other advanced countries. In the United States in 2009 United Nations statistics record 3.0 intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants; for comparison, the figure for the United Kingdom, with very restrictive firearm laws (handguns are totally prohibited, for example) was 0.07, about 40 times lower, and for Germany 0.2."

I find it hard to even get my head around the idea that this isn't worth getting worried about or trying to address.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:00:41 PM permalink
FarFromVegas
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 3
Posts: 121
Quote: AZDuffman
So you are saying 4 incidents in a nation of 300 million is some kind of epidemic
?

If they ban guns and instead crack skulls with a baseball bat then what?

And we have a society that says banning drugs doesn't work yet ban ing guns will?

Seriously your chances of dying in a car accident are higher. Worry about something worth worrying about.


A guy slashed 22 kids with a knife in China. All 22 lived.

My s-i-l is active with SafeKidsUSA and no one fights against keeping kids safe in cars. My kids have to wear helmets when riding bikes. We worry about everything worth worrying about. But cars are transportation and bikes are toys (for a kid) and guns are weapons. Assault weapons are weapons meant to kill a lot of people quickly, not hunt with or use in self defense. You bet they're something worth worrying about.

You can keep building straw men to fight against but I will continue fighting against real things.
This space for rent
December 18th, 2012 at 2:02:34 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
As we continue, let me clear something up. "Assault rifle" is one of those things the media repeats for a "ZOMG!" reaction. Many of these weapons, including the one used by Lanza, are not assault rifles.

An assault rifle must have the capability of selective fire in order to be an assault rifle. The military uses assault rifles. The BoA Bandits used assault rifles. Lanza used a gun.

Just because a gun has a modern look and is made of composite materials makes it no more deadly or dangerous than the typical wood and metal based rifles that look more at home in the woods. They have the same capabilities, fire the same round, and have the same performance.

A gun based on an assault rifle platform does not an assault rifle make. Saying it's so is no different than saying you could win the Sprint Cup because you purchased a new Monte Carlo from the dealership, "just like Jimmie Johnson's".

I don't say this to be nitpicky or make anyone feel stupid. But a debate based on false information goes nowhere.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 18th, 2012 at 2:06:30 PM permalink
FarFromVegas
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 3
Posts: 121
Quote: Face
As we continue, let me clear something up. "Assault rifle" is one of those things the media repeats for a "ZOMG!" reaction. Many of these weapons, including the one used by Lanza, are not assault rifles.

An assault rifle must have the capability of selective fire in order to be an assault rifle. The military uses assault rifles. The BoA Bandits used assault rifles. Lanza used a gun.

Just because a gun has a modern look and is made of composite materials makes it no more deadly or dangerous than the typical wood and metal based rifles that look more at home in the woods. They have the same capabilities, fire the same round, and have the same performance.

A gun based on an assault rifle platform does not an assault rifle make. Saying it's so is no different than saying you could win the Sprint Cup because you purchased a new Monte Carlo from the dealership, "just like Jimmie Johnson's".

I don't say this to be nitpicky or make anyone feel stupid. But a debate based on false information goes nowhere.


Well, then there are a whole bunch of just plain' ol' guns that need to go. Enough.


I grew up in a shooting household, BTW. NRA memberships back when the NRA stood for gun education and safety and not advocacy. My dad was captain of his Navy pistol team. We kids learned target shooting with air pistols.

But this shit has gotten out of hand. Seriously.

Now I have to go cook. You apologists will have to carry on with limited opposition for a while. Enjoy.
This space for rent
December 18th, 2012 at 2:10:30 PM permalink
MidwestAP
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1
Posts: 22
Quote: Face
As we continue, let me clear something up. "Assault rifle" is one of those things the media repeats for a "ZOMG!" reaction. Many of these weapons, including the one used by Lanza, are not assault rifles.

An assault rifle must have the capability of selective fire in order to be an assault rifle. The military uses assault rifles. The BoA Bandits used assault rifles. Lanza used a gun.

Just because a gun has a modern look and is made of composite materials makes it no more deadly or dangerous than the typical wood and metal based rifles that look more at home in the woods. They have the same capabilities, fire the same round, and have the same performance.

A gun based on an assault rifle platform does not an assault rifle make. Saying it's so is no different than saying you could win the Sprint Cup because you purchased a new Monte Carlo from the dealership, "just like Jimmie Johnson's".

I don't say this to be nitpicky or make anyone feel stupid. But a debate based on false information goes nowhere.


Fair enough, my understanding based on what I read is that the Bushmaster rifle Lanza used is an M-16 assault rifle knock off, if that's not the case I stand corrected on the term 'assault rifle'. How many rounds can it fire without reloading?
December 18th, 2012 at 2:38:30 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: MidwestAP
Fair enough, my understanding based on what I read is that the Bushmaster rifle Lanza used is an M-16 assault rifle knock off, if that's not the case I stand corrected on the term 'assault rifle'. How many round can it fire without reloading?


Depends on State law. Here in NYS, that would be 10. If you mean just all out in general, then infinite, provided you had an infinite magazine. Regardless, it means nothing. See below...




These are the exact same gun. Both fire a .30 caliber round, both are semi-automatic. Both will fire as many rounds as you can feed it. Given a task of killing many things as fast as possible, I'd take the wooden one. I can reload it faster.

"AR" designations, "scary" looks, it all means nothing. The problem, and the solution, lies deeper.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
December 18th, 2012 at 3:16:46 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18631
Quote: FarFromVegas
But this shit has gotten out of hand. Seriously.


Actually, I think people have forgotten just how many crazed shooting episodes over their years we've had. One could probably film all of them in sequence and it might last a couple days.

KEY WORDS HERE --EASY/ AVAILABLITY. Knowing I assume, there were going to be citizens shooting from the ground with their personal guns (which there were in Texas), he ascended 28 stories. Still killed 13, and wounded 32

Quote:
On the morning of August 1, Whitman rented a hand truck from Austin Rental Company and cashed $250 of worthless checks at the bank before driving to a hardware store, where he purchased a Universal M1 carbine, two additional ammunition magazines and eight boxes of ammunition, explaining to the cashier that he planned to hunt wild hogs.[38] Whitman drove to Chuck's Gun Shop, where he purchased four more carbine magazines, six additional boxes of ammunition, and a can of gun cleaning solvent. He went to Sears, where he bought a 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun and a green rifle case. He returned with his purchases to his home.

Inside his garage, Whitman sawed off the barrel of the 12-gauge shotgun, and packed the weapon, together with a Remington 700 6mm bolt-action hunting rifle, into his footlocker. The footlocker also held a 6mm bolt-action hunting rifle, a .35 caliber pump rifle, a .30 caliber carbine, a 9mm Luger pistol, a Galesi-Brescia .25-caliber pistol and a Smith & Wesson M19 .357 Magnum revolver, and over 700 rounds of ammunition. He had already packed in it food, coffee, vitamins, Dexedrine, Excedrin, earplugs, jugs of water, matches, lighter fluid, rope, binoculars, a machete, three knives, a transistor radio, toilet paper, a razor and a bottle of deodorant.[39] Before heading to the tower about 11:00 a.m., Whitman dressed in khaki coveralls over his shirt and jeans.[40]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
December 18th, 2012 at 3:55:19 PM permalink
AcesAndEights
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 6
Posts: 351
Quote: Face
As we continue, let me clear something up. "Assault rifle" is one of those things the media repeats for a "ZOMG!" reaction. Many of these weapons, including the one used by Lanza, are not assault rifles.

An assault rifle must have the capability of selective fire in order to be an assault rifle. The military uses assault rifles. The BoA Bandits used assault rifles. Lanza used a gun.

Just because a gun has a modern look and is made of composite materials makes it no more deadly or dangerous than the typical wood and metal based rifles that look more at home in the woods. They have the same capabilities, fire the same round, and have the same performance.

A gun based on an assault rifle platform does not an assault rifle make. Saying it's so is no different than saying you could win the Sprint Cup because you purchased a new Monte Carlo from the dealership, "just like Jimmie Johnson's".

I don't say this to be nitpicky or make anyone feel stupid. But a debate based on false information goes nowhere.


Worth noting is the definition of "assault rifle" vs."assault weapon".
The former seems to have a hard definition (capable of fully-automatic or burst operation). The latter seems much more mungible and I have seen many news articles refer to Lanza's primary weapon as an "assault weapon" as opposed to rifle. Are those accounts incorrect? Are they technically correct but attempting to sensationalize the issue?

Quote: Face



These are the exact same gun. Both fire a .30 caliber round, both are semi-automatic. Both will fire as many rounds as you can feed it. Given a task of killing many things as fast as possible, I'd take the wooden one. I can reload it faster.

"AR" designations, "scary" looks, it all means nothing. The problem, and the solution, lies deeper.

Is the wooden gun above capable of accepting a high-capacity magazine? I ask because the picture makes it unclear. The lower gun is depicted with a magazine attached.

Also, for reference, Lanza rigged his magazines "jungle style" to ease reloading. This article doesn't have a definite answer on the number of rounds contained in each magazine.
"You think I'm joking." -EvenBob
December 18th, 2012 at 4:01:01 PM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 89
Posts: 1744
More stories of how legal gun owners used their weapons to stop criminals here
Quote: 8 Horrible Crimes Stopped by Legal Gun Owners
In 2002, a shooting at Appalachian School of Law left 3 people dead. However, the shooter was stopped before he could kill any more people. Thankfully, 2 students were able to run to their cars, get their guns, and use their weapons to halt the rampage.