NASA says it will build quiet supersonic passenger jet
May 15th, 2016 at 10:35:39 AM permalink | |
terapined Member since: Aug 6, 2014 Threads: 73 Posts: 11786 | I notice a lot of competitive business class fares on Icelandair USA to Europe connecting in RKV I've sold quite a few of those. Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World" |
May 15th, 2016 at 11:44:22 AM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
I know the flights are not as long in duration, but business class is an older recliner model chair with 40" pitch, instead of "angled flat" or "180 degree flat". Do your clients ask about these seats? RKV, Iceland is actually 176 miles closer to BOS than LAX Flight to Seattle is 07:15 east to 07:45 west
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May 15th, 2016 at 1:28:11 PM permalink | |
terapined Member since: Aug 6, 2014 Threads: 73 Posts: 11786 |
I had no idea their bus class is not that comfortable I actually don't keep up on differences in business class on different airlines. I just have a general idea of the top airlines and assume great bus cls such as EK QR SQ ect I actually haven't sold them a lot lately. They do seem to come up in some low fare searches. Sometimes their budget determines what they buy Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World" |
May 15th, 2016 at 4:17:13 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
It seems like a funny argument to me. I've never had a flat or an angled-flat seat in my life. In my world getting upgraded to a business contour seat to cross the Atlantic was about as good as I have had it. Once I got a ride in the Navy's Office of the General Counsel business jet, and we didn't have flat bed seats for that. But I understand that many business flyers want 180 degree flat. If they get 172 degree flat seats they say they wake up when they start sliding off. |
May 16th, 2016 at 7:34:10 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
You had your upgrades in the wrong era ;)
As things go upmarket, and the more so when you don't pay for them, people tend to want even more. I wonder just how overpriced business and especially first class seats really are. Lufthansa has a first class terminal in Frankfurt (I think, it's at one of their hubs). Among many perks, passengers are driven to their flight. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 16th, 2016 at 2:17:35 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
It seems like the profit margin is considerably higher. If you consider at max they take twice the square footage of the plane, plus the cost of the food and alcohol, plus the nice car to drive you to the plane, plus your share of the showers at the terminal,etc. The price tends to be about 500% for business class and even higher for first class. Even compared to a night at the swankiest hotel and dinner in the best in house restaurant, the price of travel is very high. You may be in a hotel room for about 14 hours, but for all practical purposes the room is rented for 24 hours. Exceptions are the big hotels near LAX that rent rooms from zero hour to zero hour +24 with the cleaning staff working 24/7. They may get an extra night's rental every few days from people who leave early. But even the longest plane rides of 16-18 hours, often means that you can get another short trip in, and resell that business class seat. An entire first class terminal means that you can sell expensive restaurant meals, charter regional jets and helicopter charters, plus store footage at a premium price. |
May 16th, 2016 at 2:35:04 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
I wonder. In a typical 787, an economy row seats 9 people. In first and business, it can be anywhere from 2 to 6 people per row. Let's set aside luxury above first, essentially Etihad, and use the modern, and preferred, 1-2-1 configuration, and say it's 4 people per row. But you also need "leg room" enough for a fully flat bed. Call this three rows of economy per row of 1st or business, perhaps 3.5 in first and 3 in business. That means four seats in the upper classes replace between 27 and 31.5 seats in economy. This makes no sense. So let's assume two rows of economy per row of upper class. We then get 4 seats taking up the room of 18 seats. That means 4.5 times as much room, which fits in nicely with business going for 5 times economy in price. First costs more. Food isn't that expensive, all things considered, though the preparation should cost a lot more per plate. To be sure there are some expensive ingredients which could add up to the cost of a dish. Take a simple example with a fruit plate, commonly served to accompany desert and breakfast in the upper classes. If you add strawberries, you double the price of a dish with cheaper fruits like melon, papaya and pineapple. And of course trimmings like caviar are BIG costs. And booze, especially champagne, can easily fly higher even than the X-15 on a really good day. And now I'm beginning to think it may not be so overpriced....
You know, though I've read several reviews of Lufthansa's 1st class and its terminal, none mention shops that I can recall. It's more like a big, and very exclusive, airport lounge (complete with showers, baths, sleeping rooms, restaurant, bar, buffet, car to the plane and even WiFi). Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 16th, 2016 at 5:12:24 PM permalink | |
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
You are correct! I was just thinking of pitch. Icelandair with 40" pitch in a 757 (2-2 vs 3-3) is about two economy to one Saga class, but Qatar Airways with 78" pitch (2-2-2 vs 3-4-3) is 3.7 economy seats to one business class seat.
Qatar Airways configuration for B777-300ER Qatar is competing with Emirates, by offering a little more comfort in business class, but no first class pods. .Qatar business class is 42 flat bed seats with 180 degree recline, while Emirates has a 172 degree recline rows #5-#7 pitch 78"*3 rows =234" with 18 seats rows #10-#17 pitch 33"*7 rows=231" with 66 seats Or a ratio of 3.7 business seats to one economy seat |
May 16th, 2016 at 8:51:34 PM permalink | |
Aussie Member since: May 10, 2016 Threads: 2 Posts: 458 | Also remember that the ratio of passengers to flight attendants is much lower in business and first class than in economy. Probably 20:1 in economy but 3:1 or less in first class. So staff costs are much higher. Also you get additional baggage etc which would also mean a higher fuel burn. The costs of access to lounges etc. I agree that they are creaming it when selling these sorts of fares but it's not JUST about floor space and food. |
May 17th, 2016 at 6:46:05 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
That would be amazing, considering it was a mere back of the envelope calculation (without even an envelope!) Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |