President Obama foreign travel very different from Bush

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April 21st, 2018 at 7:11:02 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Nareed
Well, he is a hypocrite, who probably even buys indulgences.


It's funny you would use that word, because in the environmental lexicon there is an equivalent to "indulgences". They are called "carbon offsets".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset

Environmentalism has replaced communism as the world's greatest secular religion.

They do make VIP configurations for turbo prop aircraft. Pictured is a DASH-8.


The expense account does not specify the make and model of the charter, but as these are very short trips within Britain I am assuming that these prices are way too high to be anything but jets
April 21st, 2018 at 12:11:28 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Pacomartin
It's funny you would use that word, because in the environmental lexicon there is an equivalent to "indulgences". They are called "carbon offsets".



I used it on purpose. Carbon offsets, carbon credits, indulgences, it's all the same.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 21st, 2018 at 12:35:44 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
So looking at the bottom line, most of those trips are about 60 minutes in the air, and the rate seems a lot higher than £2850 /hour even if you include pilots and extra costs. I must assume that they are VIP jets.

The royal helicopter is the standard Sikorsky S-76C++ with a cruise speed: 155 knots with a range of 411 nautical miles . So that should easily be able to fly from London to Belfast (280 nautical miles) . Now the Queen and Prince Phillip are in their nineties, so I could understand not wanting to sit in a noisy helicopter for two hours, but Prince Charles is only 69 years old. Prince William is an actual helicopter pilot, so I'm sure he spends two hours in a helicopter all the time.




Quote: Nareed
I used it on purpose. Carbon offsets, carbon credits, indulgences, it's all the same.

I wondered if it was a deliberate comparison. Actually one of the wittiest things I have read in a long time.


As I said earlier, the actual aircraft chartered by the royal household for trips within Britain is not identified. That would make some sense for security purposes, because if they frequently charter the same plane from the same company, you would know where to find it.

But just looking up the charter rate for VIP DASH 8 (hourly rate) you get $4,000=£2850. They only go at a maximum speed of 287 knots


Grand Caravan propeller plane (VIP configuration) is probably $3400 per hour


But if you are actually want to show visible concern about your carbon footprint, then 287 knots for a 280 nautical mile trip should be OK. You don't need to go 370 knots in a Dassault Falcon or some high profile business jet.


NHT ABZ : 345 nm RAF Northolt to Aberdeen
NHT EDI : 284 nm RAF Northolt to Edinburgh
NHT BFS : 280 nm RAF Northolt to Belfast
BZZ INV : 359 nm RAF Brize Norton to Inverness
LPL-NHT-EGYM :139 nm + 75 nm =214 nm

RAF Brize Norton is near to Prince Charle's and Princess Anne's country estate.
RAF Northolt is within 13 miles of Windsor Castle.
RAF Marham (EGYM) is within 17 miles of Sandingham House


Twelve months starting 1 April 2016 Royal Charter flights (Domestic Only)
£17,160 11-12 May NHT - Edinburgh - NHT
£34,388 24-25 May RAF Brize Norton - Belfast City - Londonderry - Brize Norton
£16,335 26-May NHT - Boscombe Down - Aberdeen
£16,963 31-May Aberdeen - NHT
£13,893 22-Jun Liverpool - RAF Northolt - RAF Marham
£17,092 25-Jun Southampton - Aberdeen
£21,147 27-28 Jun NHT - Belfast, Derry - NHT
£17,315 29-Jun Aberdeen - Norwich - NHT
£24,241 30 Jun - 1 Jul NHT - Marham - Meault - Marham -NHT
£23,769 01-Jul NHT - Meault - Brize - NHT
£15,973 28-Jul RAF Brize Norton - Inverness
£24,192 25-Sep Aberdeen - NHT - Aberdeen
£17,971 20-22 Dec NHT - Prestwick - Brize Norton
£16,721 29-Dec NHT - Marham - Aberdeen
£9,154 average of 56 other charter flights where destination not itemized (does not include chartered helicopters)
--------
£789,795 for 70 charter flights on fixed wing aircraft only on DOMESTIC flights, not including helicopters or the cost of the royal train or the royal helicopter nor international visits which tend to be much more expensive.

International fixed wing small
£20,330 17-18 Mar NHT - Villacoublay, The
£36,990 24-25 Mar NHT - Antalya - Luton
£28,700 7-30 Sep JNB - Maputo - Gaborone - Francistown - Gaborone - JNB
£40,655 30-31 Aug Aberdeen - Archangel - Aberdeen
£62,331 Mumbai - Delhi - Tezpur - Paro -Agra-Delhi

International fixed wing large
£154,000 29 Mar - 6 Apr Brize - Bucharest - Pisa - Naples - Pisa - Rome - Vienna - Brize
£72,756 4-11 Nov Brize - Muscat - Abu Dhabi -Sharjah - Bahrain - Brize
£73,297 29-Sep Aberdeen - Ben Gurion - Aberdeen



My point is not so much that the royals spend over a million dollars on 70 domestic charters. It is actually less than a fifth of their annual travel expenditures of £4.5 million. It is just that it is a visible waste of fossil fuels to zap around on expensive leased jets for trips with segments of mostly a few hundred miles when turboprops would probably do fine.

Travel expenditures 2016-17
• Helicopters (includes operating lease payments of £0.7 million) £1.8 million
• Fixed wing (large) £0.3 million
• Fixed wing (small) £1.0 million
• Scheduled £0.3 million
Rail travel (includes imputed operating lease payments of £0.2 million) £0.9 million
Motor vehicles £0.2million
April 21st, 2018 at 6:04:06 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Pacomartin
I wondered if it was a deliberate comparison. Actually one of the wittiest things I have read in a long time.


I wish I could take credit for it, but it's been around a long time.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 24th, 2018 at 2:36:18 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: Pacomartin

A good friend of mine also called President Trump a "coward" when he cancelled the Lima trip. The exact same insult that Nareed used.

While I am critical of Prince Charles for spending that kind of money and carbon footprint to fly 280 nm over his own kingdom, I generally don't call him a hypocrite or worse names out of respect for Brits. If they want to call him names, that is their business.


Well Trump just called Kim Jong Un a "very honorable" person. So I guess that fits some sort of undeserved politeness agenda where none is deserved or required.

Kim's been running Gulag style prison camps for years. Can't even compare them to Gitmo or the worst US prisons.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
April 24th, 2018 at 2:48:18 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: rxwine
Well Trump just called Kim Jong Un a "very honorable" person. .


Wow, Trump being a diplomat and the Left
is confused. Clue 1: You don't get what you
want from the leader of another country by
treating him like a dick. You kiss his ass until
you get what you want. Art of the deal..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 24th, 2018 at 2:53:16 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: rxwine
Well Trump just called Kim Jong Un a "very honorable" person.


I told you Trump would get played.

Next he'll be used, and then discarded.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
April 24th, 2018 at 3:28:14 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: Evenbob
Wow, Trump being a diplomat and the Left
is confused. Clue 1: You don't get what you
want from the leader of another country by
treating him like a dick. You kiss his ass until
you get what you want. Art of the deal..


Has "Art of the Deal" gone into the fiction bin yet? If I want to read a book about how Trump actually made money, there's a 99% chance it needs to be written by every person's perspective except Donald Trump. I'm sure he messed it up mightily with lies.

Possibly the most interesting thing about Donald Trump, is you would never want to learn about Trump by asking him anything directly.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
April 24th, 2018 at 3:59:54 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: rxwine
Well Trump just called Kim Jong Un a "very honorable" person. So I guess that fits some sort of undeserved politeness agenda where none is deserved or required.

Kim's been running Gulag style prison camps for years. Can't even compare them to Gitmo or the worst US prisons.


So, now you haters are going to get mad because he was polite?
The President is a fink.
April 24th, 2018 at 4:19:14 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Funny

You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
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