Should Women be punished for abortion

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7 members have voted

March 31st, 2016 at 7:12:05 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: pew
Abortion doctors and the industry as a whole want as many as possible.


Yeah, they even go out raping and inseminating women so they'll have more abortions to perform. Just like cardiologists, who thrive on heart disease, secretly replace your olive oil with transfatty acids. And oncologists pump cigarette smoke into schools to drive up cancer rates.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
March 31st, 2016 at 7:52:15 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Wizard
No.


The point is that assuming abortion to be murder is as reasonable as assuming water is combustible.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
March 31st, 2016 at 7:55:17 AM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Quote: Nareed
Yeah, they even go out raping and inseminating women so they'll have more abortions to perform. Just like cardiologists, who thrive on heart disease, secretly replace your olive oil with transfatty acids. And oncologists pump cigarette smoke into schools to drive up cancer rates.
And sticking pins in condoms.
March 31st, 2016 at 8:06:06 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: pew
Women are victims of abortionists.


Huh?
Nobody is forcing a woman to see an abortionist
The logic should be for pro life
If 2 people get together to discuss a murder
1 person does the crime
Both are guilty of conspiracy to murder
Same should apply during an abortion, conspiracy to murder an unborn between a woman and a DR

By the way I am pro-choice, just playing devils advocate :-)
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
March 31st, 2016 at 9:26:28 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Wizard
Thank you. This was the point I was hoping to get to with my original question. Say what you will about Trump, I think his stance yesterday that women who have an abortion should be prosecuted, I assume for murder, is logical thinking, based on the premise that the abortion is a homicide. If anyone on the pro-life side can't handle that, then I think they should reconsider their position.


Logic long ago was driven from the abortion discussion. As you demonstrated with your questions about third semester abortions or infanticide the pro-choice position has no logical reason for why one is okay and another is not. Does breathing on our own make us human beings with dignity? Does our viability make us human? Why is the moment before birth the person is not a person and then afterwards they are a person worthy of protection and care. What about before the third trimester? Nothing changes in regards to the genetic makeup of the developing person. If left alone all these embryos become nothing but unique and unrepeatable human persons, why should this be stopped just because someone is a few weeks after conception old? We recognize a baby is present when a mother is intentionally pregnant, but when the child is unwanted then it ceases to be a child? How does any of this make sense.

If you say that the pro-life position is illogical because we do not want to prosecute a woman who has an abortion it is because compassion trumps logic. In its very essence the pro-choice position is illogical because there are many things that trump logic in the mind of someone who supports abortion.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
March 31st, 2016 at 9:43:07 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
Logic long ago was driven from the abortion discussion.


Of course it has been. How else can you set up straw-man arguments, which are logical fallacies to begin with, if you don't do away with logic and reason first?

For example, logic and reason will tell you a fetus does not exist in sharply defined quantum states, but rather in a development continuum without clear demarcation lines.

Logic and reason would also tell you that the lack of clear demarcation lines does not mean all states in the continuum are equivalent to each other.

Your side of the debate simply cannot function through the use of logic and reason. Therefore you've thrown them under the bus.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
March 31st, 2016 at 9:51:04 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4156
Quote: rxwine
Also, I still say what people would actually do, is proof of what they believe.

Would you really sacrifice a 1 year old baby in a fire to rescue a dozen frozen embyros not given enough time to rescue both?


I would like a 'pro-life' member to address this question. How say ye, FR Gamble?
March 31st, 2016 at 10:07:42 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Nareed
Of course it has been. How else can you set up straw-man arguments, which are logical fallacies to begin with, if you don't do away with logic and reason first?

For example, logic and reason will tell you a fetus does not exist in sharply defined quantum states, but rather in a development continuum without clear demarcation lines.

Logic and reason would also tell you that the lack of clear demarcation lines does not mean all states in the continuum are equivalent to each other.

Your side of the debate simply cannot function through the use of logic and reason. Therefore you've thrown them under the bus.


You say this as if the lack of clear demarcation lines means that potential, statistical examples, and history are not valuable. Where do the vast majority of embryos not terminated by abortion lead to? You know this of course but use sophistry, NOT logic or reason, to magically ignore the reality. You also ignore science that says fairly clearly that the states in continuum are not adding new genetic material but only giving time for development. You also fail to see distinctions in this continuum for example when the heart begins to beat, when nerves form, when pain is capable, etc.

What you said above is not logic it is gobbly gook that doesn't stand up to the slightest push from reason and logic.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
March 31st, 2016 at 10:16:45 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
Where do the vast majority of embryos not terminated by abortion lead to?


Miscarriage.

Studies indicate the majority of fertilized ova fail to attach to the uterine wall.

If there were a god and it had created people, its design would be worthy of massive lawsuits. Not to mention it would have a HUGE number of abortions to its name.


Quote:
You also ignore science that says fairly clearly that the states in continuum are not adding new genetic material but only giving time for development.


Is your middle name "Non-sequitur"? If not, perhaps you might consider changing it.

BTW, do you know the exact number of mutations and epigenetic changes which take place at all stages of gestation? How does that affect you non-sequitur above?

It doesn't? Oh, my!


Quote:
You also fail to see distinctions in this continuum for example when the heart begins to beat, when nerves form, when pain is capable, etc.


When the mitochondria start powering the cell, too. Don't forget about that. without the symbiotic bug, there's no life at all.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
March 31st, 2016 at 10:27:02 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: SOOPOO
Quote: rxwine
Also, I still say what people would actually do, is proof of what they believe.

Would you really sacrifice a 1 year old baby in a fire to rescue a dozen frozen embyros not given enough time to rescue both?


I would like a 'pro-life' member to address this question. How say ye, FR Gamble?


I really don't see the point of the dilemma in regards to the pro-life debate. If you could save either the president or a group of drug addicts who would you choose? If you could only save your daughter or 10 strangers who would you choose? If deciding one way or the other you are not making any judgment on if this or these persons are human beings or not. If a hospital was on fire and there was a comatose man incapable of feeling pain and a middle age man recovering from an appendicitis and you could only rescue one who would it be? There are good reasons to perhaps rescue the middle age man because the other won't feel pain. You aren't saying the one is worthless or not important. Maybe if you clarify the point of the thought experiment I can try to answer you better.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (