Should Atheism be made illegal?

Quote: Evenbob

It's been
struck down as nonsense and is no
longer on the agenda to strike fear
and intimidation into the congregation?
Answer carefully..

Question more carefully, because I have no problem saying you are, as usual, 100% wrong. It has not been struck down, it is not nonsense, and it is not about striking fear or intimidation into anyone.

Just do a google search for "catholic sermons on hell"

Here are a few quotes from very first one I read, https://www.olrl.org/doctrine/hell.shtml

Quote:

St. John Chrysostom, a beloved Father of the Church, used to say and repeat that the Lord Jesus preached more often on the Catholic Dogma of Hell than any other subject.

Quote:

Why do you think St. Augustine changed his life? Because of the fear of Hell. I preach often on Hell because the Lord Jesus and Our Blessed Mother asked me to preach on Hell...

Quote:

Pope Pius IX, who gave us the Roman Catholic Dogma on the Immaculate Conception; Pope Pius IX, who has given us the Syllabus, used to preach and ask preachers to please, please, preach more often on Hell.

It seems abundantly clear to me that hell has been and is still the topic of some sermons of hell, and that the fear of hell and eternal damnation is being used as a "motivational tool" to "guide" the behavior of people.

I put "motivational tool" and "guide" in quotes so I could point out that I used relatively mild terms, and I think stronger terms could also be used.

Quote: FrGamble

and it is not about striking fear or intimidation into anyone.

You should tell that to the writers
of the NT. They certainly used it that
way.

"I would venture that most people, if asked who spoke the most about hell, would name the apostle Paul. But they would be wrong. It is not a prominent subject for Paul. Hell is, however, a prominent subject for–and this is initially rather shocking–our Lord. Jesus taught more about hell and judgment than anyone in Scripture... Jesus taught more about hell than anyone else combined. In reading the gospels, the subject of hell and judgment was one He could hardly stop talking about. He considered it an extremely important subject...The doctrine of hell or eternal condemnation is difficult and unpleasant. It is, however, a doctrine that receives significant attention in the Bible, especially by the Lord Jesus Christ."

Here's an extremely long article on Jesus
and hell, with hordes of Jesus comments
on the subject. If you can't see that his
intent was to strike fear into people, then
you don't know how to read correctly.

http://doctrine.org/hell-and-judgment/

Quote: Dalex64

It seems abundantly clear to me that hell has been and is still the topic of some sermons of hell, and that the fear of hell and eternal damnation is being used as a "motivational tool" to "guide" the behavior of people.

Partly. there's also the old standby belief held over from as far back as history goes, and perhaps farther, that the gods will punish people for their "sins."

But it's not as simple as Joe kills Bill therefore Jehovah punishes Joe. Oh, no. That belief wouldn't have held against the evidence. Instead Joe kills Bill, and Jehovah unleashes a plague where Joe lives, killing hundreds and perhaps even Joe. We see this all the time in the Bible. See the Exodus myth and the wholesale slaughter of Egyptian boys.

We see it in history all the time. When the Byzantine empire lost Egypt and other lands to the rising Muslim Caliphate in the 7th and 8th centuries, there followed a long, tortuous and exceedingly boring debate about why was "God" so angry at Rome (remember the Byzantine empire called itself the Roman empire). Much of it came down to icons, with the iconoclasts blaming "God's" wrath on the iconophiles, and vice versa.

This view has gone out of fashion as a dominant theme, mostly because "God" seems to take his own sweet time effecting punishment, and sometimes he doesn't get off his butt at all. But it's still there in the background, and sometimes makes it to the fore, especially among Protestants in the Western hemisphere.

Again isn't it more silly (and arrogant) to think that none of them are real and everyone is wrong.

Quote: FrGamble

Again isn't it more silly (and arrogant) to think that none of them are real and everyone is wrong.

Not at all. In order to believe in any gods
existence, you have to shut down what
you know about science, what logic you
have, and park your common sense outside
the door. Why would a normal person want
to do that, unless they've been brainwashed
since birth to think otherwise. What always
impresses me is, so many atheists are extremely
bright people. Look at Ricky, the guy is a comic
genius. Is it just a coincidence that so many very
intelligent people are atheists? I won't even list
them, you know who they are.

And this is kind of a low blow, but Hitler was raised
going to Catholic schools and by a very strict Catholic
mother. I'm willing to bet had he been raised by
secular parents who didn't teach him to hate Jews
at an early age, he would have turned out differently.
In the late 19th century, when Hitler was a child,
in countries like Poland, Austria, Germany, the Church
had no problem being openly anti semitic. That
was the atmosphere Hitler was raised in.

Quote: FrGamble

Again isn't it more silly (and arrogant) to think that none of them are real and everyone is wrong.

I think it is illogical and irrational to select any one of them over another.

Quote: Evenbob

Not at all. In order to believe in any gods
existence, you have to shut down what
you know about science, what logic you
have, and park your common sense outside
the door.

That is exactly what you have to do to not believe in any God.

Quote:

And this is kind of a low blow, but Hitler was raised
going to Catholic schools and by a very strict Catholic
mother. I'm willing to bet had he been raised by
secular parents who didn't teach him to hate Jews
at an early age, he would have turned out differently.

You don't need to bet on it, just look at Stalin. He was worse than Hitler, probably because he had no religious background and maybe hated religion even more than Hitler.

Quote: FrGamble

You don't need to bet on it, just look at Stalin. He was worse than Hitler, probably because he had no religious background and maybe hated religion even more than Hitler.

There you go AGAIN! You always (always) excuse
the Church by comparing what it did to something
you consider just as bad or worse. Like that's a valid
defense.

'Sure my client is guilty of killing 3 women, your honor,
but Ted Bundy killed dozens!'

You can't defend the Church's role in making Hitler
into a rabid anti semite, so you point at some other
event instead. It's a fact that when Hitler was growing
up, the Vatican and the Popes were on a crusade to
make sure the holy land was never taken over by
the Jews. They were outspoken about it. Jews were
blamed for everything by the Church, and it finally
culminated in the Holocaust a few decades later.