Aeromexico has competition on flight to Tokyo from MC

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April 6th, 2016 at 8:55:17 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Aeromexico now has competition on flight to Tokyo from Mexico City. All Nippon Airlines is flying the exact same model plane Dreamliner 787-8 as Aeromexico, but with considerably fewer seats.

More than 800 companies from Japan had a Mexican presence in 2014. Passengers who traveled between the two countries in 2014 totaled 142,400 on a one-way basis, up nearly 20% on the year. The figures are seen surging further after the Trans-Pacific Partnership free agreement takes effect.

Aeromexico configuration
32 Premier Business 60" pitch 20" width flat bed seats with 180 degrees recline
211 Economy 34" pitch 17.2" width standard seats


ANA configuration
46 Business 44" pitch 19.4" width flat bed seats with 180 degree recline
112 Economy 33-34" pitch 18.6" width standard seats with 115 degree recline
April 7th, 2016 at 1:57:21 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
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ANA seems the better seating arrangement for executives whether it is business class to Tokyo or business class to Tokyo and continuing on elsewhere in Japan.
April 7th, 2016 at 4:24:16 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Japan sent almost all international traffic to Narita airport in 1978, while Haneda carried exclusively domestic traffic. In 2010 they built a new international terminal at Haneda and are trying to encourage upscale long haul business traffic to go to Haneda, while Narita is now concentrating on growing lower cost and narrow body airplanes.

ANA has the largest fleet of Dreamliners in the world and mostly uses Narita airport.

Quote: Fleastiff
ANA seems the better seating arrangement for executives whether it is business class to Tokyo or business class to Tokyo and continuing on elsewhere in Japan.


The fact that they would put 112 economy seats in the same airframe that Aeromexico puts 211 economy seats is a little shocking.
April 7th, 2016 at 6:28:29 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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I suppose ANA focuses more on the premium class. Both because they have more of it, and it's arranged for greater privacy and universal aisle access.

What surprises me is the pitch in economy. 34" is rather sybaritic these days.
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April 7th, 2016 at 8:17:07 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Nareed
I suppose ANA focuses more on the premium class. Both because they have more of it, and it's arranged for greater privacy and universal aisle access.
What surprises me is the pitch in economy. 34" is rather sybaritic these days.


For ANA this flight will now be the longest one they fly, beating the flight to Washington Dulles
11200 km Narita, Tokyo, JP (NRT) to Juarez Intl, Mexico City, MX (MEX)
10800 km Narita, Tokyo, JP (NRT) to Washington Dulles Intl, Washington, DC (IAD)

So of the four configurations they have for the 37 planes they have of this model, they are using the version with the least number of seats.
Airlines very rarely put 8 seats across in Economy when they can put 9.

AeroMéxico (AM)
Boeing 787-8 (788) 32 Business 211 Economy (23 rows 9 seats + 4)

All Nippon Airways, also known as ANA (NH)
Boeing 787-8 (788) 46 Business 112 Economy (14 rows 8 seats ) <===== MEXICO FLIGHT
Boeing 787-8 (788) 46 Business 102 Economy (11 rows 9 seats + 3) 21 Premium Economy (3 rows 7 seats)
Boeing 787-8 (788) 42 Business 198 Economy (22 rows 9 seats )
Boeing 787-8 (788) 42 Business 180 Economy (22 rows 8 seats +4 )

This competition may be a bit of a blow to AeroMéxico as I am sure the nonstops to Tokyo and Shanghai are there most profitable flights. They compete with European Airlines for all their flights to Europe.
April 7th, 2016 at 9:21:57 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin
So of the four configurations they have for the 37 planes they have of this model, they are using the version with the least number of seats.
Airlines very rarely put 8 seats across in Economy when they can put 9.


We may be overlooking Tijuana. I think AM makes a stop there on the way to Asia, which lets them refuel with a heavier take off weight than they could carry from MEX-NRT.

I think ANA could also make a refueling stop there, but it could not take in passengers or let anyone off the plane. This would require a lighter total take off weight from MEX, meaning fewer passengers.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
April 7th, 2016 at 1:31:50 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Nareed
We may be overlooking Tijuana. I think AM makes a stop there on the way to Asia, which lets them refuel with a heavier take off weight than they could carry from MEX-NRT.


With the older Boeing 777-200ER Aeromexico used to stop in Tijuana until San Diego got their own non-stop to Tokyo. Then they stopped in MTY for a few months, but the new Dreamliners can take off from the high and dry Mexico city airport and make it all the way to Tokyo. So ANA made the choice to configure with a small number of seats before making the decision to fly to MEX, and it was not a decision to save fuel.

Now the flights from MEX to Shanghai which is further than Tokyo still stop in Tijuana. San Diego airport does not have flights to China, so with the new cross border bridge it makes TIJ more attractive for flights to China than going to LAX or SFO.



Aeromexico has a code share with it's SkyTeam partner, Korean Air, where you can fly to ICN via LAX.

I don't know what ANA is going to charge for an Economy seat as they don't start until October. But Aeromexico still sells some economy tickets to Tokyo starting at about 40,000 pesos round trip (business class is 228,000 pesos round trip). I suspect that ANA is going to be a lot more expensive.

Aeromexico leased Boeing 777-2Q8(ER) starting on 22. Mar 2006, 28. Apr 2006, 28. Dec 2006, 05. Sep 2007. I thought they were going to turn them in at 10 years old, but the replacement B787-9s are not completed yet. Perhaps Aeromexico got a short term extension on the lease.
April 7th, 2016 at 4:50:21 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Pacomartin
but the new Dreamliners can take off from the high and dry Mexico city airport and make it all the way to Tokyo. So ANA made the choice to configure with a small number of seats before making the decision to fly to MEX, and it was not a decision to save fuel.


Ah, I didn't know that.

Then I suppose someone should ask ANA what their reasoning is. My guess is that it's a new route, perhaps with high demand in the premium cabin, and they're testing to see what develops.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
April 7th, 2016 at 8:46:01 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 662
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Quote: Nareed
Then I suppose someone should ask ANA what their reasoning is. My guess is that it's a new route, perhaps with high demand in the premium cabin, and they're testing to see what develops.


ANA absolutely expects the route to attract business passengers! Mexico is a production base for automobiles from Japanese companies Nissan Motor Co., Mazda Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. manufacture automobiles in Mexico, mainly for export to the United States. Toyota Motor Corp. plans to produce the Corolla car at a new plant there from 2019.

It won't happen until October so I am not sure what Aeromexico's response will be. They may abandon the market completely and simply move to nonstop to Korea to complement their flights to Shanghai.Or they may cut the Tokyo flights from 4 per week to 2 per week.

CHINA Shanghái
JAPÓN Tokio


Japan's four older B777s (10-14 years) which are leased, will be replaced by Boeing 787-9 starting later this year. Although these planes were originally secured to fly to Tokyo, they are now flying the routes Madrid (MAD), Buenos Aires (EZE), and Sao Paulo (GRU). Tokyo, Shanghai, Paris, and London and other flights to Madrid are all being flown by the smaller Dreamliner B787-8.


Boeing 777-200ER 49 first + 228 economy =total 277
Boeing 787-9 40 first + 240 economy =total 280
Boeing 787-8 32 first + 211 economy =total 243
April 9th, 2016 at 11:26:49 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 306
Posts: 10274
Quote: Pacomartin
Toyota Motor Corp. plans to produce the Corolla car at a new plant there from 2019.


I think my Corolla came from Canada.

BTW I'm sold on Toyota. In 5 years, it has given me zero issues past regular maintenance.

Quote:
It won't happen until October so I am not sure what Aeromexico's response will be.


I suppose they could declare a fare war. Or fight an undeclared one (same difference). They might also advertise more in Japan. Perhaps they may offer lower fares only on business class. Then, too, if Japanese business people like making the most of a jaunt across the Pacific, say if they fly to Mexico and then to Central/South America or to the US or Canada, AM is in a better position to offer them connecting flights on such routes.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
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