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Two Gods or One
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| May 29th, 2016 at 8:26:58 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
A perfect example of you can make the NT say any damn thing you want if you just present the right convoluted argument. Jesus said call no man father, but what he REALLY meant is blah blah blah blah.. That people buy this BS is the amazing part. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| May 29th, 2016 at 9:17:34 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Really common sense and a knowledge of Scripture is all you need to understand this tradition. It's ironic that the practice of calling priests father is one of the most Biblical sound titles. It also corresponds to the role we have in the midst of the community. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| May 29th, 2016 at 9:52:35 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
What's really ironic in my Baptist minister brother in law says it's in direct violation of what Jesus said. He also he has a priest friend, and when they have a disagreement, the priest consults the Vatican for an answer. The minister consults scripture. His question is, how does the Vatican think it knows more than the book the religion is built around. You want someone to obey you, have them call you father. We're hard wired from birth to have loyalty and respect for someone with that title. It's brilliant on the part of the Church to twist it around so they can use it to their advantage. At least it was till the Reformation, when the NT was taken literally again. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| May 30th, 2016 at 3:56:09 AM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
Maybe you could give a few examples of who you are NOT supposed to call father? "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| May 30th, 2016 at 9:48:44 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Well the father has the responsibility to first of all participate in giving life to someone and then also provides and protects those who he nurtures, forms, and cares for. This is the role for a spiritual father in the midst of a parish. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| May 30th, 2016 at 9:54:19 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Please share with him the link that Dalex gave. In other parts of the Gospels Jesus Himself refers to others as father and the St. Paul refers to himself as the father of different Churches many times.
First of all, isn't it you who just said you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to? There needs to be an authority to help us interpret these sacred texts so we all don't go around saying it means this or that. The other thing you got wrong is that the religion is NOT built around the Bible. The Bible was not around in the early days of Christianity. It formed and was put together by the Church as a collection of inspired letters and writings that communicated the truths about our religion. Finally, one last error you committed is that the Vatican does NOT think it or anyone knows more than the Bible. The Bible is the rule of faith and everything the Vatican holds must be in line with what the Bible teaches or it cannot be true. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| May 30th, 2016 at 10:30:37 AM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
That did not answer my question. I did not ask for your definition of father. "Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven" (Matt. 23:9). That website I linked to earlier had all sorts of examples from elsewhere in the bible of a man who was not a biological parent being addressed as father. My question remains: to whom are you not to address as father, for you have one father who is in heaven? That website doesn't really answer the question either. They dig around for context and insert what they think that must be to reconcile that directive with how they think things ought to be and with other statements in the bible. The context offered on the webpage appears to be a complete fabrication. To whom are you not to address as father? "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| May 30th, 2016 at 10:46:03 AM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 | Here is the surrounding material. It says Jesus was addressing a croud of people (looks like the paragraph before this one) and addressing his disciples: 8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. It looks really really clear to me - he is telling his disciples that when they are doing their job spreading the word, they are not to be addressed as rabbi (teacher) or instructor or father. Fast forward a few hundred years, and the pope (papa) has the title father, and it starts being handed down the heirerchy. This excerpt preceeds a paragraph about hypocracy. I did not see that the paragraph after that one was about irony. You might also start to see why the words of the bible were kept from the masses. If someone as educated as I am can make such an erroneous interpretation (accirding to the church) imagine if the uneducated masses got ahold of that and took every word directly literally and out of context and abolished the title father from our vocabulary. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| May 30th, 2016 at 11:15:09 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Why? Did you actually read it?
What you mean is, the Church has changed so much of what the NT says, and added so much of their own stuff to it, that you need an interpreter to figure it out for you. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| May 30th, 2016 at 11:34:17 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Look again at who He is addressing, it is not His disciples but rather the Pharisees and Scribes. These are the ones who desire to have honor and power. They are the ones who think they deserve to be called these titles and Jesus is humbling them. Really do you think that Jesus is not using hyperbole here? It is a common way to impress upon someone a point that is obviously not to be taken literally. Especially if you bother to read the rest of the Gospel and the NT where the titles Rabbi and father are used by Christ and His disciples.
First of all no one who read this passage in the early days of Christianity ever saw any problem with it. Just stop for a moment and think about it. Do you really think that Jesus is telling us that you cannot call your own biological parent a father? The simplest person back then and still today would realize that is not what Christ is saying. Your erroneous interpretation is not made out of a lack of education, but rather out of an agenda to push. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |