Two Gods or One

Quote: Evenbob

Why? Did you actually read it?

Yes, did you?

Quote:

What you mean is, the Church has changed
so much of what the NT says, and added so
much of their own stuff to it, that you need
an interpreter to figure it out for you.

You are crazy there is nothing changed in the NT, it is exactly the same in every Bible we have.

1) How come Jehovah's first messiah wasn't enough?

2) How come the immediate splintering into Arians, Gnostics, Monophysites, etc. counts as "O-N-E" faith, even after innumerable councils, from Nicaea onwards, failed to reconcile all manner of belief? What makes the Catholic heresy special?

Quote: FrGamble

You are crazy there is nothing changed in the NT, it is exactly the same in every Bible we have.

So where does asking Mary and the saints to
pray for you come from, then.

"The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for them. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns."

Quote: FrGamble

The simplest person back then and still today would realize that is not what Christ is saying.

The Protestants must be really simple, then.
For them, it's obvious what is being said.
In the days when this tradition started, father
was the highest authority figure you had in
a family. Transferring that respected title
to a religious leader was wickedly smart. In
the uneducated mind, it immediately makes
them subservient, which was the obvious
intention. You obey a father, you trust and respect
him. He loves you, he will always look out for
you and give you his best advice. Not only
was it wickedly smart, it was just plain wicked.

Quote: FrGamble

First of all no one who read this passage in the early days of Christianity ever saw any problem with it. Just stop for a moment and think about it. Do you really think that Jesus is telling us that you cannot call your own biological parent a father? The simplest person back then and still today would realize that is not what Christ is saying. Your erroneous interpretation is not made out of a lack of education, but rather out of an agenda to push.

Did you even read what I wrote? That is not my opinion. It is:

Quote: Dalex64

he is telling his disciples that when they are doing their job spreading the word, they are not to be addressed as rabbi (teacher) or instructor or father.

But instead, it looks like just another case of one representative of a religion telling every other religion that he is right and they are wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracles_of_Joseph_Smith

Let's see... Joseph Smith was a real person. We have eyewitness testimony of the things he did. Everyone else is wrong. I think that covers all of the bases.

I had no idea there was billionaire preacher!

Quote: Pacomartin

I had no idea there was billionaire preacher!

If there was a god, he'd want his preachers
to be wealthy.

Quote: Evenbob

So where does asking Mary and the saints to
pray for you come from, then.

The Bible asks us to pray for each other. Since the very beginning of the Christian faith people have come to the tombs of the holy men and women who they believed to be alive with Christ and ask them to intercede as well. This has always been the traditional practice of the Church. Do you think the Apostles and their disciples, the earliest Christians were wrong about this practice? Again it comes down to common sense. If it is okay to ask someone who is living to pray for you and since we believe when you die you are with the Lord, why not ask those who still love and care for us to pray for us too? Do you think that when you get to Heaven the relationships and friendships you made on Earth mean nothing and we are all forgotten about? I don't think so.

The things condemned in the Bible are indeed strongly condemned and for good reason. None of those things is asking the saints and the holy men and women of God to pray for us.

Quote: Evenbob

The Protestants must be really simple, then.
For them, it's obvious what is being said.

If the Bible was this one verse taken out of context yes it would be obvious but something that many Fundamentalists, not really Protestants, have a problem with is the literal interpretation of the Bible and not really seeing what it teaches. This comes from the insistence to do everything yourself, use yourself as the highest authority, and ignore tradition and history.

Quote: Pacomartin

I had no idea there was billionaire preacher!

Guilt is good for business.