Conscientious objector prerogative

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Poll
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5 members have voted

June 6th, 2016 at 8:59:14 AM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: Nareed
Military conscription is temporary slavery with a much higher than normal chance of being killed. It shouldn't merely be ended, it should be outlawed. Any politician who formally suggests reviving it, should be stripped of his office and sent to prison for life.


Oh, I see you don't believe in free speech for politicians then?
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
June 6th, 2016 at 9:07:32 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: TheCesspit
Oh, I see you don't believe in free speech for politicians then?


A formal suggestion would be something like putting the idea up for debate in a legislature. But the notion of forced servitude is so abhorrent, we should show no tolerance for it. Suppose a politician favored reimposing slavery for African Americans?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
June 6th, 2016 at 9:39:00 AM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: Nareed
A formal suggestion would be something like putting the idea up for debate in a legislature. But the notion of forced servitude is so abhorrent, we should show no tolerance for it. Suppose a politician favored reimposing slavery for African Americans?


They'd be rightly mocked and protested and campaigned against. They wouldn't be thrown in jail for having such views.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
June 6th, 2016 at 9:45:25 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: TheCesspit
They'd be rightly mocked and protested and campaigned against. They wouldn't be thrown in jail for having such views.


It should be illegal to propose legislation for it.

To be sure there'd be due process. So if a state legislator, or a representative or senator at the Federal level, introduces a debate to bring back the draft, they should be impeached and tried under existing statutes for such things.

There are reasons why legislators ought to enjoy immunity from the effects of the laws they pass. Just the same, some things are beyond the pale. And there's a case to be made why legislators ought to be liable for the laws they pass. But that's way off topic for this thread.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
June 6th, 2016 at 11:22:11 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Did we lose the Korean war? Firstly, it was
a UN war, 16 countries were involved.
It was a major victory for United Nations
forces, and turned around what was then
a losing war.

Did we win the war with Japan and Germany?
You bet. We still occupy those countries with
a powerful military presence.

Was Vietnam a military loss for the US?
Hardly. Did we surrender and allow
Vietnam to occupy the US? Yeah, right.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 6th, 2016 at 12:02:26 PM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Quote: Nareed
Military conscription is temporary slavery with a much higher than normal chance of being killed. It shouldn't merely be ended, it should be outlawed. Any politician who formally suggests reviving it, should be stripped of his office and sent to prison for life.


Will you change your mind when Trump invades Mexico and the Mexican army can't get enough volunteers?
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
June 6th, 2016 at 12:22:30 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: kenarman
Will you change your mind when Trump invades Mexico and the Mexican army can't get enough volunteers?


Given the speed and methods of modern warfare, recruiting people once a war starts means the intention to use them as canon fodder. So especially then, it would be a heinous law to even consider.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
June 6th, 2016 at 12:52:52 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
Inequity has been the reason for modern calls for a return to the draft. The well-off and connected have an easier time avoiding a nasty war. (stats, didn't look them up, so don't know how significant)

There's also some contention that it's easy to support bloody fighting if you know you won't have to do it. So, there's a reason to get everyone's hand in the actual game so they have something to lose.

(not researched that idea either, so not endorsing it)
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
June 6th, 2016 at 1:11:46 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: Wizard

The question for the poll is had you of draft age at the time, what would you have done?


Exactly what I wanted. Same as ever =p

I know that's not really an answer, but it's best I can do. It all depends on feel. I can't put myself in WWII shoes, but under those circumstances, I can "feel" the righteousness. Nam? Dunno. Today? Hell no.

If I believed in it, I'd be the first man in. If not, there's not a single thing you could do to get me to fight.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
June 6th, 2016 at 2:08:20 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: rxwine
Inequity has been the reason for modern calls for a return to the draft. The well-off and connected have an easier time avoiding a nasty war. (stats, didn't look them up, so don't know how significant)

There's also some contention that it's easy to support bloody fighting if you know you won't have to do it. So, there's a reason to get everyone's hand in the actual game so they have something to lose.

(not researched that idea either, so not endorsing it)


Rangel introduced a bill to reinstate the draft for that reason. The army foes not want it. They would not have the manpower to take the draftees. Military has been a path out of poverty or a bad life since the first military formed. The well off and connected get out of danger even with a draft ( eg Al Gore).
The President is a fink.
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