Trump vs Hillary 2016

Quote: Evenbob

The reason more aren't in coal is it's been
downsized to almost nothing. 250K in
solar that supplies less than 1% of our
power is just ridiculous, what a waste
of time and money.

Downsized to almost nothing and yet still producing 30% of the power. That kind of efficiency is sure to make investors happy.

Putting people to work in an industry with actual growth potential would be a better idea. With or without regulations, the coal industry is one in decline and doomed to extinction.

Quote: kenarman

There are millions employed in the conventional fuel industry. Your point is? Coal employment has been suppressed by government intervention and solar employment is expanded by government subsidies.

The point is the effort should be put towards a growing industry, not a doomed one.

That will be my last word on the subject for a while. Feel free to take the last word and distort economic theory to your heart's content.

Quote: Dalex64

That is way too simplistic a view. It is not econ 101.


The less efficient an industry is in terms of worker productivity, the more workers it will have to hire to produce the same output.

Uh, this is Econ101. Why does a job on an automobile assembly line pay better than a job at a fast food place? It is because the auto worker even at a low skill produces less output. He cannot be paid more, the money is not there.

If more workers need to be hired, ROI will go down and investment will follow it down. Then the industry goes down.

One other thing, coal can jobs never, ever be offshored. Solar jobs can and are, all the time.

Oil is not subsidized. Solar is. The "subsidies" you are talking are differing tax treatment that is there because oil wells return in different ways than manufacturing. Solar cannot compete on its own merits yet. It may or may not ever. I remain convinced that in decades to come solar as we know it will be eclipsed by new methods that will work. But that is decades away.

A coal mine opening is a good thing. The Trump haters would rather freeze in the dark than admit that.

Quote: AZDuffman

One other thing, coal can jobs never, ever be offshored. Solar jobs can and are, all the time.

Coal jobs can never be offshore? Why not? Is there some law prohibiting it? I really don't know. What I do know is there is significant automation being developed more and more. Longwalls are all operated automatically with only maintenance and relocation requiring manual labour. Almost every piece of equipment on an open cut mine can be run remotely via gps. Same with the trains that transport the output to port. This will be seen more and more. Naive to think these jobs can't be offshored. Even if they're not they will be done by a fraction of the workforce in the not too distant future.

That said, there are hundreds of millions of people in the world who have no power at all. They won't be moving on from candle light without coal. It's not going anywhere for a while yet.

Quote: Dalex64

the coal industry is one in decline and doomed to extinction.

In another hundred years. In the meantime
making electric with coal is very efficient
and cost effective. It's only in decline
because guvmint regs made it that
way. Without the guvmint propping
up solar, it would collapse tomorrow
at noon.

Quote: Aussie

Coal jobs can never be offshore? Why not? Is there some law prohibiting it? I really don't know.

Coal is mined. Unless they are going to dig from China to West Virginia it is going go stay onshore.

Coal has come a long way. True that the jobs will be automated, same as any and every industry. Few are the jobs that will not partially be at the least. The point is it is a good thing we have a new mine opening. Mines are not like the old days, despite what the greenies think. Coal miners have always been rugged men.

Quote: AZDuffman

Coal is mined. Unless they are going to dig from China to West Virginia it is going go stay onshore.

Coal has come a long way. True that the jobs will be automated, same as any and every industry. Few are the jobs that will not partially be at the least. The point is it is a good thing we have a new mine opening. Mines are not like the old days, despite what the greenies think. Coal miners have always been rugged men.

The point was you said the jobs can never no offsured which is simply not true. 90%+ of an operation could be run from the other side of the world already. Whether it's run from the other side of the world or the other side of the country is really irrelevant though as the result will be he same in terms of employment.

The rest of your post I agree with entirely. No need to try to convince me of the benefits of coal, I work in the industry.

Quote: Aussie

The point was you said the jobs can never no offsured which is simply not true. 90%+ of an operation could be run from the other side of the world already.

My point is a mine is where it is. The mine cannot be moved. No matter if the white collar back room stuff is moved, that cannot change.

Quote: AZDuffman

Coal miners have always been rugged men.

That link really hit the spot, good one.

Is there any good reason to have some CTL plants, just in case? I thought there was supposed to be some coal to liquid plants working already, one in Penn, and another in Montana?

The thing with solar is you need a coal generation station nearby to make all the plastics for the panels, that start degrading the day they are turned on. You already know what a waste I think of Wind. They fail left and right and all you ever hear is how green it is, not what it took to get hundreds of tons of steel spinning in the air.