So, guns kill people and what are you going to do about it?

Let's face facts. There are a lot, and I mean a lot, of gun-related deaths in America. These cover a range from deliberate homicides, mass shooting, suicides, accidental shootings (including shooting at the wrong person), and more.

What are you going to do about it?

Arming everyone won't solve the problem, and you cannot in any case force people to arm themselves. Banning certain kinds of guns is worse than useless. Banning all guns is simply impossible. Even if no new guns could be sold to anyone for any reason, there are literally tens of millions of guns and tons of ammunition already out there. You could never collect them all, be it by force, persuasion or any other means. In addition, the guns already out there would become prime targets for theft, and there would flourish a black market for guns (if you don't believe me, you must not believe illegal drugs are trafficked all over the US right now).

So what can be done?

What really matters is that neither those who favor gun rights nor those who favor banning guns want to see so many deaths from firearms. That should be the focus of any action.

Guns kill people. That's what they're designed to do. What are you going to do about it?

Quote: Nareed

...Arming everyone won't solve the problem...

True, but those who want to be armed, and assume the training, responsibility, and liability that goes with carrying, should be allowed to. More guns in the hands of trained, law abiding citizens is not a bad thing. The bad guys already have stolen guns. Why would "progressive" legislators deny citizens the right to defend themselves?

As for what to do... start with enforcing the laws that are already in place. Three Strikes works. The death penalty works.

Quote: Ayecarumba

True, but those who want to be armed, and assume the training, responsibility, and liability that goes with carrying, should be allowed to. More guns in the hands of trained, law abiding citizens is not a bad thing.

How many people with a carry permit have any training at all?

Quote:

As for what to do... start with enforcing the laws that are already in place. Three Strikes works. The death penalty works.

I'm not sure the death penalty serves as a deterrent.

The problem with things such as three-strike laws is that inevitably they lead to draconian punishments for milder offenses.

I should think one ought to get to the root of the problem. To begin with it's not one problem, but many. Gang warfare with guns is not the same problem as armed robbery with guns, and neither has much to do with gun suicides.

"Guns are used exponentially more often to stop crime than to kill; each year firearms prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes in the U.S., usually without a shot being fired, meaning that guns are used over 300 times more often to save innocent lives."

We need more guns, not less.

Quote: Nareed

Guns kill people. That's what they're designed to do. What are you going to do about it?

I would limit the number of legal purchases just before the point where a black market would start to be feasible. No one could buy more than one gun a year. Or at least it would be acutely more strict to do so. You could not have an outstanding parking ticket. A library fine. Nothing. You could not have one report from anyone making a complaint against you in the last 2 years, even if it wasn't prosecuted. This last part is for multiple purchases, not for single.

This is what I'd do if I was just being reasonable.
:)

Otherwise, I might have the cops stop melting down confiscated guns, and create a method to have internal microscopic fractures (some fancy pinlight laser developed by the DARPMa folks?) put into the guns on inside surfaces not visible to eye or easy inspection, and then start circulating them on the illegal gun market. They would be functionally able to fail at any moment, or even be dangerous to the user.

Hey, it's an illegal gun, so I don't care. You shouldn't have it in the first place or should have been more ethical in purchasing.

Quote: rxwine

I would limit the number of legal purchases just before the point where a black market would start to be feasible. No one could buy more than one gun a year. Or at least it would be acutely more strict to do so. You could not have an outstanding parking ticket. A library fine. Nothing. You could not have one report from anyone making a complaint against you in the last 2 years, even if it wasn't prosecuted. This last part is for multiple purchases, not for single.

This raises two questions:

1) Would it work?

2) How would you keep the gun rights people from raising a massive protest against such measures?

Quote: Nareed

This raises two questions:

1) Would it work?

2) How would you keep the gun rights people from raising a massive protest against such measures?

1. Long term, it should reduce the number of guns. Less guns to be stolen, accidental shootings, and so forth should be reduced at least. But it doesn't actually prevent someone from purchasing a gun. A single gun at least. They want one for protection, they can get one.

2. You said it. I can't do anything about that.

Quote: rxwine

1. Long term, it should reduce the number of guns.

Americans have always loved guns. It's
how we won the Revolutionary War.
Everybody was armed. It's very hard to
take over an armed populace. Hitler,
Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Idi Amin, they all
disarmed the public 'for their own good'
and they all ended up killing their own
people, who were then defenseless.

Never trust anybody that wants to keep
you from buying a gun. An armed citizenry
is a prepared citizenry.

Quote: rxwine

I would limit the number of legal purchases just before the point where a black market would start to be feasible. No one could buy more than one gun a year. Or at least it would be acutely more strict to do so. You could not have an outstanding parking ticket. A library fine. Nothing. You could not have one report from anyone making a complaint against you in the last 2 years, even if it wasn't prosecuted. This last part is for multiple purchases, not for single.

What other rights are you wanting taken away from law-abiding people?

PC is what has allowed so many of these attacks to happen, not the availability of guns.

Quote: AZDuffman

What other rights are you wanting taken away from law-abiding people?

PC is what has allowed so many of these attacks to happen, not the availability of guns.

No, people with guns who pull the trigger while pointing them at people have allows so many of these attacks to happen. It's little or nothing to do with Political Correctness. Blaming it on PC is like blaming it on Trump and Sarah Palin.

'Solving' the gun problem in the US is like trying to solve the problem of the British cricket or the French love of good wine and food. It's a culturally endemic thing, for all the good, bad and indifferent that means. The biggest difference is that on a regular basis, this means people die due to fast flying metal shot my unstable, twisted or dangerous people. Cricket only kills a one or two people every decade.

America doesn't need more guns and isn't about to get less (where less = close to 0, else it's no difference). The attitude needs to change, both by the pearl clutching brigade who are so out of touch with many parts of the US cultural heritage, and understanding of what a gun -is-, and the 'guns for all, and all for guns' extreme wingnuts. Guns are a right, but also a responsibility, and I'd say being able to buy a AR-15 in minutes isn't right... but nor is taking away the rights enshrined in the laws of the country and the culture, and where undoubtedly, the fear of an armed citizen reduces crimes.