The "problem" of evil

Quote: pew

I've realized that the biggest hindrance to belief in a creator or creation is not the problem of evil, suffering, the triumph of science or anything else. It's simply that people don't perceive to need God to live their lives on a daily basis.

This is so, but only due to the triumph of science. granted most people don't make the connection explicitly, but everyone is aware of it implicitly, and have been for a very long time, say from the late 1700s onwards.

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Even if the universe depends upon Him holding the atoms together He doesn't lord it over us so why worry about it?

Because too many people use their god as a means of oppressing others, and the argument from divinity still holds terrific emotional sway.

It's been the case from way back. Back in the day of Noah the whole world didn't care.

Quote: Nareed

Because too many people use their god as a means of oppressing others, and the argument from divinity still holds terrific emotional sway.

God is pure emotion, that's why the preacher
always appeals to the believers emotional
side. Science is devoid of emotion, there's
no room for god. Science and religion are
like oil and water, they'll never get along.
Science appeals to the our rational, thinking
side. Religion appeals to our irrational, non
thinking side. That's why it's so repugnant
to real thinking people, like atheists.

If there is anything the history of science shows us is that science and religion do go together and need to. Beyond the philosophical underpinnings girding science and creating the possibility to do science religion provides the morality science needs to makes sure that just because we can do something does not mean that we should. Both science and religion as well as everything we do besides watching Jersey Shore require of us to be rational and thinking people.

Quote: FrGamble

religion provides the morality science needs to makes sure that just because we can do something does not mean that we should..

Can you be any more condescending and
ridiculous? The people of science are
perfectly capable of having morals without
the help of religion. In fact, they do a much
better job of it than religious people do, as
we've discussed here many times.

Quote: Evenbob

The people of science are
perfectly capable of having morals without
the help of religion.

Where would these morals come from? Science cannot create morals or test for them or observe them? Majority rules is a dangerous faulty way to arrive at our morality? Personal wishes or desires of the scientists themselves? Just as bad as depending on majority rules. No morality has to come from someplace different, outside of ourselves, universal, and something that resonates with our reason and nature.

Quote: FrGamble

If there is anything the history of science shows us is that science and religion do go together and need to.

Of course they do. The former debunks the latter.

Quote: Nareed

Of course they do. The former debunks the latter.

They are totally different fields, they don't debunk each other but they support and help each other.

Quote: FrGamble

No morality has to come from someplace different, outside of ourselves, universal, and something that resonates with our reason and nature.

It comes from common interest, reason and logic combined. It may take a little more than initial thoughts to learn to treat the handicapped more like everyone else, but it can be arrived at through reason and common interest.

I suspect there was a slow realization that virtually anyone could be in the difficult position of being handicapped. So, eventually, running the handicapped through with a spear gave way to, "it could be me" in that position if I become lame in some manner. Or they laughed if it was someone elses' family member, but realized it was terrible if it was their family member. Of course, the ability to serve people in greater capacity than just survival mode lead to more sympathetic results in societies. But that was also a logical result.

I didn't employ morals, just logic and common interest to arrive at that.

Quote: FrGamble

Where would these morals come from?

All morality comes from common sense. We
know this because we see societies that have
been cut off from organized religion entirely
had no trouble coming up with their morals.
Trial and error and you soon have a workable
society. God had nothing to do with it. You're
always selling people short, why is that.