The "problem" of evil

Our morality does not come at all from cold hard logic. Logic is wonderful for many things but for creating moral norms it is inhuman. Morality is also not common sense. Common sense is what would tell us to look out only for ourselves or to grab as many toys as we could. Uncommon sense tells us to look out for others, to sacrifice for others and to help them. While Evenbob is pulling the example of a society cut off from religion out of his you-know-where his impossible hypothetical* reminds us that we are all born with this uncommon sense of morality. There is something in us that recognizes that just logic, reason, or common sense alone would never get us to the morality we all recognize as good and it would certainly not be something universal. This is a gift from God and another proof of Original Sin reminding us of our former and future greatness!


*It is an impossibility because human beings are religious beings and you can cut off a society from some things, but religion is not one of them.

Quote: FrGamble

This is a gift from God and another proof of Original Sin reminding us of our former and future greatness!

Morality is not a gift, there is no giver.
Morals are the result of people learning
to work together for the advancement
of society. Morals are the grease that lets
1 million people live in a city without
murdering each other. Morals have nothing
to do with god, we come up with morality,
give yourself some credit once in awhile.

We don't come up with morality as if we make it out of thin air, we discover it. We cannot change the truth that rape is evil or that genocide is wrong no matter how hard we try. If we really came up with morality we could change it and we cannot. It is in us as a gift from God to guide us and to help us progress. Sometimes people argue that morality holds us back from progress yet they nor anyone can change it.

Quote: FrGamble

We cannot change the truth that rape is evil or that genocide is wrong no matter how hard we try.

Those aren't particularly tough ethical problems to evaluate without any god guidance.

Most of the tough ethical problems aren't so easy for religion to handle either.

Consider a child who murders someone and what to do with that child? I don't think anyone can come to a cut and dry decision in some universal manner for every case like that. And if you tried, it would be probably be an injustice in some cases.

Quote: rxwine

Those aren't particularly tough ethical problems to evaluate without any god guidance.

Most of the tough ethical problems aren't so easy for religion to handle either.

Consider a child who murders someone and what to do with that child? I don't think anyone can come to a cut and dry decision in some universal manner for every case like that. And if you tried, it would be probably be an injustice in some cases.

That's not a moral question. It's a justice question. How about Malthusian eugenics? Perfect logic, get rid of the weak and the undesirable races and imbeciles, weed out the herd so to speak. Pol Pot had some great morals. Get the people back to the land, breath the nice fresh air and get some healthy exercise out in the fields as we build a utopia together.

Quote: rxwine

And if you tried, it would be probably be an injustice in some cases.

Morality is a moving target, not something
set in stone as god people want us to believe.

Quote: pew

That's not a moral question. It's a justice question.

You can't separate them so easily. For instance the nature of punishment itself is a moral question.

Quote:

How about Malthusian eugenics? Perfect logic, get rid of the weak and the undesirable races and imbeciles, weed out the herd so to speak. Pol Pot had some great morals. Get the people back to the land, breath the nice fresh air and get some healthy exercise out in the fields as we build a utopia together.

Figure it out yourself. You wouldn't be the first to try. First of all does eugenics even work well enough to be useful? Some of this has already been tried more than once.

Quote: FrGamble

We don't come up with morality as if we make it out of thin air.

Oh, but we do. Because so much of it
is similar to all cultures, we think it
comes from some force outside of us.
But humans are all basically the same,
and we reason the same, and that's
why so many cultures have the same
morals. You sadly sell us all short by
painting us as barbaric thugs without
the input of some god. It's not that way
at all.

Quote: rxwine

Figure it out yourself. You wouldn't be the first to try. First of all does eugenics even work well enough to be useful? Some of this has already been tried more than once.

So you are saying its morality is based on its effectiveness? Do you really think it is okay to "give it a try"?

Quote: Evenbob

You sadly sell us all short by
painting us as barbaric thugs without
the input of some god. It's not that way
at all.

The real barbarians are the ones who think morality can change depending of circumstances, who is in power, who is popular, or what someone might think is best for them. Gladly most people recognize their God-given goodness and follow their conscience.