The Bible God or Kali

Quote: FrGamble

Why in the world is belief in God more of a ridiculous position than there is no God. It would seem that starting with a belief in God is the much more logically and sane place to start. Can you give one logical argument or evidence that there is no God? Even Nareed can't do that so why start with most bizarre, illogical, and ridiculous position?

Like I said, bizarro world!

Quote: FrGamble

It would seem that starting with a belief in God is the much more logically and sane place to start.

You would make a very poor scientist.
You cannot have a bias and do the
work properly. You will always be trying
to prove your bias, and ignore what
doesn't fit.

When looking for god, you have to start
in a neutral position. Compare all the
arguments on either side and you will
reach the conclusion you can neither
prove or disprove gods existence. If
you want to be a believer anyway, that's
the problem you deal with.

Quote: Evenbob

When looking for god, you have to start
in a neutral position.

I agree we both start in the neutral position that there may or may not be a God.

Quote:

Compare all the
arguments on either side and you will
reach the conclusion you can neither
prove or disprove gods existence.

I'm still with you here. While you can prove logically that there is a God/Being/Force/uncaused cause/first mover, etc., you cannot prove that this "God" is Jesus Christ without believing in revelation and through personal experience.

Quote:

If you want to be a believer anyway, that's
the problem you deal with.

The difference comes in here. I want to be a believer because I believe I have credible evidence for God in the person of Jesus Christ and my personal loving relationship I have with Him. You still have no evidence either way and yet you chose not the neutral position but rather the atheist position. Why is that? Are you biased? Do you want to be a non-believer. If that is so it is your problem and you should deal with it.

Quote: FrGamble

The difference comes in here. I want to be a believer because I believe I have credible evidence for God .

Don't kid yourself. You want to be a believer
because that's what you were taught all
your life and you don't know any better.
If you had a neutral upbringing like I did,
we would both be atheists. You never had
a chance..

Quote: Evenbob

Don't kid yourself. You want to be a believer
because that's what you were taught all
your life and you don't know any better.
If you had a neutral upbringing like I did,
we would both be atheists. You never had
a chance..

Not getting into my personal history, which you know nothing about, you still haven't said what moved you from being neutral to being an atheist. Were you biased or did you just want to be an atheist?

Quote: FrGamble

First of all there is no greater story than the Gospel.

I can mention hundreds of stories with better plotting, ideas, characters and plain stories, including even some from the Bible. Look up a Trek Deep Space Nine ep called "Whispers," it's mind-blowing. Or see also from Trek The Next Generation's "Best of Both Worlds part I and ][," or "The Measure of a Man." Or Asimov's "Nightfall," "The End of Eternity," and "The Naked Sun." Robert Heinlein's "Friday," and "The Door To Summer." Niven's "The Integral Trees" and its sequel "The Smoke Ring." That's just in Science Fiction.

Quote:

Have you ever noticed that every good story, movie, or book always in some way reflects the story of Jesus Christ.

Sure. So many stories end up with the son of Jehovah inexplicably crucified by Roman Legions, I've lost count. Let's see, of the ones I've seen and know about, hmmmm, let's see: Three!

Yup. That's a near infinite number, insofar as 3 and seven hundred quadrillion are as near to infinity as makes no difference. Bu then infinity minus one is as close to infinity as infinity minus forty two septillion quadrillion trillion, so....

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Anyway, you seem to harp on the fact that it can't be proved. There are lots and lots of things about this life that you believe that cannot be proved without a reasonable doubt.

This reminds me: any progress in your attempt to prove I do not have evidence to the fact that no gods can exist?

Quote: Nareed

I can mention hundreds of stories with better plotting, ideas, characters and plain stories, including even some from the Bible. Look up a Trek Deep Space Nine ep called "Whispers," it's mind-blowing. Or see also from Trek The Next Generation's "Best of Both Worlds part I and ][," or "The Measure of a Man." Or Asimov's "Nightfall," "The End of Eternity," and "The Naked Sun." Robert Heinlein's "Friday," and "The Door To Summer." Niven's "The Integral Trees" and its sequel "The Smoke Ring." That's just in Science Fiction.

How many of them have an underdog, poor person, an unknown or someone looked down upon by soceity that rises up to win an amazing battle, how many find the hero in an impossible situation ready to give up all hope, betrayed by even his friends yet fights on, how many involve the hero sacrificing his well being for the sake of others, how many have a hero who is seemed to be dead or defeated only to come back again to lead and be victorious.

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This reminds me: any progress in your attempt to prove I do not have evidence to the fact that no gods can exist?

I think I have made it clear that you cannot have evidence proving something that is false is true. It is a logical impossibility.

Quote: FrGamble

How many of them have an underdog, poor person, an unknown or someone looked down upon by soceity that rises up to win an amazing battle, how many find the hero in an impossible situation ready to give up all hope, betrayed by even his friends yet fights on, how many involve the hero sacrificing his well being for the sake of others, how many have a hero who is seemed to be dead or defeated only to come back again to lead and be victorious.

You mean like in Homer's Iliad and Odyssey?

And are you saying Jesus only seemed dead but wasn't?

Quote:

I think I have made it clear that you cannot have evidence proving something that is false is true. It is a logical impossibility.

I'm not asking you to prove what I can and cannot have, but what I do or do not have.

I assumed the difference would be clear. As Douglas Adams once noted: we cannot call "impossible" something that's happened. I have such evidence, therefore it is possible for me to have it.

Can you prove that I don't?

Quote: FrGamble

Not getting into my personal history, which you know nothing about

At one point a couple years ago you
said you were raised Catholic. Are
you now saying you weren't? You
said you had a bumpy stretch in
your teens, I think, but got over it.
You and Face were talking about it
a couple years ago.

Quote: FrGamble

you still haven't said what moved you from being neutral to being an atheist.

I've said what many atheists have said, I
woke up one day and realized I was an
atheist. It's not a revelation, it's not a
religious experience. Somewhere along
the line it just happens. You read and
you study and over the years it just
happens. You don't decide, it just becomes
overwhelmingly obvious that there is
no god.

Often, I'm happy to embrace the agnostic view. But sometimes after reading several of FrGamble's crazy ass explanations, I drift into strong atheism.