Trump & Putin

Quote: rxwine

Read conservative media prior to Trump if you want to know how bad Russia is.

It is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, I don't think I can in any duration spend much of my time paying attention to hate radio or news.

But. The US has never stopped doing business with Russia. Armond Hammer continued to do billions of dollars worth of business during the cold war. The rhetoric is for the masses, but it is spun. We are breaking treaty after treaty with the Russians that were agreed upon between Gorbachev and Reagan. We said we wouldn't put arms in Poland, and that is exactly what we are doing. We just sent them about 80 tanks, which broke the agreement.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-11-19/news/mn-3795_1_cold-war

"The centerpiece of the summit, the Conventional Armed Forces in Europe treaty, calls for the destruction or removal of thousands of tanks, artillery pieces, combat vehicles and attack aircraft from the Atlantic to the Ural Mountains deep inside the Soviet Union.

By so doing, it will alter the military balance in Europe by erasing Moscow's ability to mass huge numbers of tanks and other heavy armor in central Europe.

The other treaty is a nonaggression pact in which the members of the two alliances declare they are "no longer adversaries" and will "refrain from the threat or use of force" against each other"

Quote: petroglyph

But. The US has never stopped doing business with Russia.

There is business transacted between nations even in times of war. That's not the point.

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Armond Hammer continued to do billions of dollars worth of business during the cold war.

The Communists had a term for people like that: useful idiots.

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We are breaking treaty after treaty with the Russians that were agreed upon between Gorbachev and Reagan. We said we wouldn't put arms in Poland, and that is exactly what we are doing. We just sent them about 80 tanks, which broke the agreement.

Before or after Russia stole territory from a sovereign nation? Actions have consequences

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The other treaty is a nonaggression pact in which the members of the two alliances declare they are "no longer adversaries" and will "refrain from the threat or use of force" against each other"

That's spun rhetoric if I ever saw any.

Quote: petroglyph

It is ridiculous to think that Trump is Putin's Puppet.

It might even be ridiculous to think he's Putin's bitch.

But then it might be ridiculous to think an inexperienced, incompetent, unstable populist with a racist, divisive agenda who cannot offer any specific policies to save his life, and who wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the ass, could get elected even dog-catcher in Podunk.

What's not ridiculous is that politicians who get help getting elected, such as money, favors, hacking their opponents and so on, often do favors in return.

What's even less ridiculous is to be concerned that the clown sitting in the oval office, expresses admiration for an autocrat who has subverted his own country's laws and institutions in order to seize and retain what amounts to dictatorial power.

Quote: Dalex64

There is also more to military spending than personnel...

...Purely as a matter of opinion, I think we spend enough on the military.

My point is that comparing our costs to those of another country, like China, who has low wages and low prices for goods...maybe they even make sure pricing for military goods is low on top of that; who knows...is not a great comparison.

We do spend a lot on the military and I think that every penny needs to be well spent. There is a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse that has gone on for years and years through Democrat and Republican administrations. I do think we could be better stewards of our dollars--and they are OUR dollars, yours and mine, not "The Government's"--and we should demand accountability. We really don't, though.

What is "enough"? I am not sure. It depends on what the mission of our military truly is.

I do know one thing. Sending people in and out of war zones as often as we do is not good for the mental health of those people.

Quote: Nareed

But then it might be ridiculous to think an inexperienced, incompetent, unstable

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populist

with a racist, divisive agenda who cannot offer any specific policies to save his life, and who wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the ass, could get elected even dog-catcher in Podunk.

Do you really believe he is a populist? I would say faux populist at best.

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What's not ridiculous is that politicians who get help getting elected, such as money, favors, hacking their opponents and so on, often do favors in return.

Well there it is in a nutshell, really. Between the mega donors such as Soros or the Kochs or even Adelson, the POTUS's are marching to someone else's drum. Trump is taking orders just as those before him.

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What's even less ridiculous is to be concerned that the clown sitting in the oval office, expresses admiration for an autocrat who has subverted his own country's laws and institutions in order to seize and retain what amounts to dictatorial power.

Maybe he is our friend then? In the last 8 years, we have killed many many more, than Russia.

Quote: petroglyph

Do you really believe he is a populist? I would say faux populist at best.

He's a classic populist.

He's certainly not a Republican.

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Well there it is in a nutshell, really. Between the mega donors such as Soros or the Kochs or even Adelson, the POTUS's are marching to someone else's drum. Trump is taking orders just as those before him.

At this point I should refer you to FrGamble. But I don't know what good he'd be able to do.

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Maybe he is our friend then? In the last 8 years, we have killed many many more, than Russia.

So you're not concerned Golden boy might want to subvert the law and the institutions of the US?

Granted the odds of someone getting even a third term are slim, and probably that's not his aim anyway, and he'd be too old to last too long in any case, but subversion of the law is a particularly dangerous pastime for US politicians to have. Dangerous for the people.

And Putin's not your friend. All he wants from Golden Boy is a chance to rebuild bits of the Soviet Empire.

Quote: Nareed

He's a classic populist.

If I use this definition pop·u·list
ˈpäpyələst/Submit
noun
1.
a member or adherent of a political party seeking to represent the interests of ordinary people.

Quote: petroglyph

In the last 8 years, we have killed many many more, than Russia.

Maybe I'm biased on that, but seems Russia has been more likely to kill people in its own country, which is somewhat important consideration to me. And not just if you're a volunteer in the armed forces which is how our government kills its people mostly. And you don't have to join up so you can even avoid that part.

Quote: petroglyph

No he's not my friend, but also I don't perceive him as a threat.

Not as long as both sides have plenty of nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles, no.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/03/06/russia-invites-nato-take-part-moscow-security-conference.html Interesting that NATO gets an invite