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Home » Lighter Topics » Travel » Delta ends some routes at Tokyo's Narita airport, signalling start of shift in Asia
Delta ends some routes at Tokyo's Narita airport, signalling start of shift in Asia
| August 14th, 2016 at 2:21:08 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | http://www.startribune.com/delta-ends-routes-at-tokyo-s-narita-airport-signalling-start-of-major-shift-in-asia/389920041/ The fundamental problem is that USA still has three major airlines that fly international, and Japan only has two. Each US airline is the centerpiece of a an international alliance, and the two Japanese airlines are already taken by American and United. Japan Airlines 1 April 2007 Oneworld (American Airlines) - 173 aircraft with 112 widebodies All Nippon Airways 15 October 1999 Star Alliance (United Airlines) - 210 aircraft Recently four new LCC international airlines have been incorporated, but they have only ~50 narrowbodies between them. 2012 Jetstar Japan: 20 Airbus A320-200 @ 180 seats 2012 Peach Air: 17 Airbus A320-200 @ 180 seats 2013 Vanilla Air: 9 Airbus A320-200 @ 180 seats 2014 Spring Airlines: 3 Boeing 737-800 @189 seats So what is SkyTeam to do? They tried desperately to seduce JAL away from Oneworld between September 2009 and February 2010, but there was no joy. Since being spurned by JAP, SkyTeam has increased from 2 to 7 partner airlines in Asia. So they almost have to move flights to China to insure connections. Sky Team Alliance
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| August 14th, 2016 at 4:17:07 AM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Q: How do foreign airlines dismantle the US Hub and Spoke system? A: One spoke at a time. |
| August 14th, 2016 at 11:21:35 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | Haneda Airfield first opened in 1931 . The Japanese transport ministry commissioned a study of alternative airport locations in 1963, and in 1965 selected a plan to build a five-runway airport in the village of Tomisato. The site was later moved 5 km (3.1 mi) northeast to the villages of Sanrizuka and Shibayama, where the Imperial Household had a large farming estate. This development plan was made public in 1966. The runway was completed and the airport scheduled to open on March 30, 1978, but this plan was disrupted when, on March 26, 1978, a group of protesters broke into the control tower and destroyed much of its equipment, causing about $500,000 in damage and delaying the opening until May 20, 1978. World Rank, air passengers in 2015 #5. Tokyo Haneda Airport HND 75,316,718 #48. Narita International Airport NRT 37,268,307 I fail to see why after all this time, they are taking trans-Pacific international flights into Haneda (airports are 37 air miles apart). |
| August 14th, 2016 at 12:52:00 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
There's been much talk about it int he aviation blogs, but I'm not particularly interested in that subject. From what I gather, Haneda is much closer to Tokyo, which of course makes it more convenient for travelers. What I do know is that until just now, US carriers were restricted to night-time slots at Haneda. Now there are 4 or 5 daytime slots open, and American, Delta and United want them. Hawaiian seems ok with a night slot. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| August 14th, 2016 at 2:14:04 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
 Well it is 47 years older, so naturally it is much closer. But the Japanese have invested heavily in two nonstop trains from the airport. From downtown Tokyo to Haneda by Monorail 1 transfer, 30 minutes, 650 yen, frequent connections Take the JR Yamanote or JR Keihin-Tohoku Line from Tokyo Station to Hamamatsucho Station (5 minutes, 160 yen 2 miles) and transfer to the Tokyo Monorail to Haneda Airport (20 minutes, 490 yen, 11.1 miles, 11 stations). From downtown Tokyo to Narita by Narita Express (top speed 80 mph) no transfers, 81 minutes, 3020 yen But the shortest route with a transfer on busy crowded public transit system is often much more difficult than a dedicated train to the airport with lots of room for luggage. Also the monorail is 50 years old. You are much more likely to take a limousine bus. The Ministry of Transport originally planned to allocate a number of the newly available landing slots to international flights of 1,947 kilometres (1,210 mi) or less (the distance to Ishigaki, the longest domestic flight operating from Haneda). In May 2008, the Japanese Ministry of Transport announced that international flights would be allowed between Haneda and any overseas destination, provided that such flights must operate between 11 PM and 7 AM. Upon the opening of the international terminal in October 2010, 30,000 annual international slots became available and were allocated to government authorities in several countries for further allocation to airlines. While service to Seoul, Taipei, Shanghai and other regional destinations continued to be allowed during the day, long-haul services were limited to overnight hours. |
| August 15th, 2016 at 7:03:14 AM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
While not all travel to Japan is ludicrously lengthy, a lot of is. I imagine most people would, after traveling 12+ hours in a plane, prefer a short ride from the airport than a long one. Distance isn't necessarily determining, but in this case it seems to be. For an opposing view, I miss flying from Toluca on business, precisely because returning home from there was a shorter trip, most time, than returning home from MEX, even though TLC is rather farther away. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| August 15th, 2016 at 7:09:43 AM permalink | |
| Aussie Member since: May 10, 2016 Threads: 2 Posts: 458 | Haneda is definitely preferable if you're stopping in Tokyo. Just so much closer. I flew into Narita a couple of years ago and it took close well over an hour to get to Tokyo station on the Narita express (sic). If you're simply transiting to another part of Japan the arrival airport is not so important of course. |
| August 15th, 2016 at 9:31:18 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Schedules list it at 81 minutes to Tokyo Station from Narita for the express. The other electric trains don't go to the center of the city. After the riots at Narita in 1978, Japan has sworn never to build another remote airport again. All subsequent airports (at least 3) have been built on artificial islands so they are close to the city. Now the US pacific coast is much steeper drop off, so the equivalent in California would be a "floating" airport. The original intention was to have high speed rail at Narita so you could transit to other parts of the country. Instead, more airports were built.
But Narita was functioning for over 20 years as the international airport. By opening up Haneda to international flights, you naturally set up massive competition as airlines struggle to go to the closer airport. It almost never works to have directly competing airports. It was a disaster in Montreal. Dulles in Washington DC survived on federal grants for 20 years before it could function on it's own. BWI was a functioning airport for Baltimore before it began taking some Washington area traffic. There is often pressure in cities like Denver or Hong Kong to keep the old airport open for "regional aircraft" only. They kept Dallas Love Field open when DFW opened, but the Wright Amendment protected DFW traffic by severely limiting the range for Love Field. It looks like Las Vegas is eventually going to learn the hard way. |
| August 15th, 2016 at 9:50:20 AM permalink | |
| DRich Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 51 Posts: 4967 |
Distance to and from the airport is a huge factor for me. For the last 25 years I have not lived more than a 10 minute drive from the airport and can't imagine how the people on the other side of town handle a 35 minute drive home after landing. My wife and I have been considering moving to Athens Georgia but it would be over an hour drive to Atlanta airport. If we didn't enjoy travelling so much it wouldn't be a problem, but we like to go places all the time. At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent. |
| August 15th, 2016 at 2:52:11 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
I always amazed that Atlanta ended up the largest airport in the world. There are 2 million people who live within a 20 mile radius of ATL, and there are 2 million people within an 8 mile radius of JFK (even though the circle includes mostly water and LaGuardia is 11 miles away). There are 2 million people within a 9 mile radius of Newark Airport. Of course, Charlotte, CLT, has only 2.7 million people in a 50 mile radius around the airport and they manage to have one of the largest airports in the country. |