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Steven Dubner is a genius!

August 31st, 2016 at 6:30:23 AM permalink

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545

Dubner is half of the Freakanomics authorship team. Currently he has at least two podcasts I listen to, Freakanomics Radio and Question of the Day.

In the latter he and his co-host (I forget his name) tackled the question as to why Sucker (or is that Sucker?) is not a popular spectator sport in the US.

Ok. Remember I've said, half in jest, many, many times, the objective of Sucker seems to be to nearly score, as this happens a great deal more often than actual scores? But that this baffled me, as no one keeps the count of near scores as determinant to the result of the match?

Well, Dubner brought up economics as an explanation (he does that a lot). He said that since scores are few in Sucker, their value is much greater. This means a score in Sucker is more exciting than in other comparable endeavors like Football. Therefore the audience gets very excited when it seems a score is likely, and that's why there is a big reaction from the crowd at near scores.

Great minds think alike?

Not quite.

Dubner actually likes Sucker.

Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

August 31st, 2016 at 7:04:01 AM permalink
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831	I assume you are referring to soccer. I have no idea how popular a sport it is in the USA but despite all the middle east immigrants it should be growing but not to supremacy. Probably slow growth is due to officiating defects (honesty).

August 31st, 2016 at 7:53:04 AM permalink
DRich Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 51 Posts: 4966	Bring back indoor soccer. Play it in a hockey rink without the ice. It becomes a great fast game and using the boards for passing is exciting. At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.

August 31st, 2016 at 8:14:31 AM permalink

Nareed

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545

Quote: DRich
Bring back indoor soccer.

It's not a plant. it won't die if kept from sunlight.

Quote:
Play it in a hockey rink without the ice. It becomes a great fast game and using the boards for passing is exciting.

It's uneconomical. You can't sell 100,000 tickets for a game. You probably can't sell even 50,000.

Dubner made the point that pro Sucker matches in the US draw about 20k people on average. He then compared it to basketball and hockey, which draw fewer people per game. But the latter are played in small courts indoors, not un huge pitches outdoors. And in any case the big money comes from TV deals, not in-stadium ticket sales (which nicely negates my point above, I know).

The small money comes from ticket sales, concessions, and team-branded merchandise.

Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

August 31st, 2016 at 11:38:14 AM permalink

Face

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941

I'm with DRich. I'd go watch, at least once.

And you wouldn't need a huge fan base. Hockey rinks, assuming using the full stands (which it would), only hold around 20k. I think the problem economically is those 20k for hockey start at around a hundo for the nosebleeds (or $800 if you're in Toronto =p). I can't say I know a soccer fan, so I have no idea what they'd pay, but I can't imagine that much a draw for those prices.

Good idea, DRich. Now figure out a way to introduce contact and you got yourself a sport =)

Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.

August 31st, 2016 at 11:50:53 AM permalink
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545	Quote: Face And you wouldn't need a huge fan base. Hockey rinks, assuming using the full stands (which it would), only hold around 20k. Wouldn't the cleats chew up the ice? Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

August 31st, 2016 at 12:54:26 PM permalink

TheCesspit

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929

Quote: Face
I'm with DRich. I'd go watch, at least once.

And you wouldn't need a huge fan base. Hockey rinks, assuming using the full stands (which it would), only hold around 20k. I think the problem economically is those 20k for hockey start at around a hundo for the nosebleeds (or $800 if you're in Toronto =p). I can't say I know a soccer fan, so I have no idea what they'd pay, but I can't imagine that much a draw for those prices.

Good idea, DRich. Now figure out a way to introduce contact and you got yourself a sport =)

Soccer 6's was televised in the UK for a while, and used some of the senior players from the club sides. You can play several games in an afternoon (much like Rugby 7's). There was also the Scorpion format for a while, which was 3-on-3. Both are fun to watch as short format tournaments. I'm not sure they'd make a good league format.

I'd think box Lacrosse would be more popular for off season Hockey rink usage, at least in North America. It seems to do alright here on the west coast, and has plenty of physicality to it.

It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life

September 6th, 2016 at 5:54:50 PM permalink

Pacomartin

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569

Quote: Nareed
It's not a plant. it won't die if kept from sunlight.
Dubner made the point that pro Sucker matches in the US draw about 20k people on average. He then compared it to basketball and hockey, which draw fewer people per game. But the latter are played in small courts indoors, not un huge pitches outdoors. And in any case the big money comes from TV deals, not in-stadium ticket sales (which nicely negates my point above, I know). The small money comes from ticket sales, concessions, and team-branded merchandise.

Hockey unfortunately was made popular by violence (at least in Philly).


Stadium	Club(s)	City	Capacity	Opened
StubHub Center	LA Galaxy]	Carson, California	27,000	2003
Red Bull Arena	New York Red Bulls	Harrison, New Jersey	25,189	2010
BBVA Compass Stadium	Houston Dynamo[n 1]	Houston, Texas	22,039	2012
Providence Park	Portland Timbers	Portland, Oregon	21,144	1926
Saputo Stadium	Montreal Impact	Montreal, Quebec	20,801	2008
Toyota Stadium	FC Dallas	Frisco, Texas	20,500	2005
Mapfre Stadium	Columbus Crew SC	Columbus, Ohio	20,145	1999
Rio Tinto Stadium	Real Salt Lake[n 2]	Sandy, Utah	20,008	2008
Toyota Park	Chicago Fire	Bridgeview, Illinois	20,000	2006
Dick's Sporting Goods Park	Colorado Rapids	Commerce City, Colorado	19,680	2007
Talen Energy Stadium	Philadelphia Union	Chester, Pennsylvania	18,500	2010
Children's Mercy Park	Sporting Kansas City	Kansas City, Kansas	18,467	2011
Avaya Stadium	San Jose Earthquakes	San Jose, California	18,000	2015
Orlando City Stadium	Orlando City SC	Orlando, Florida	25,500	2014	2017
D.C. United Stadium	D.C. United	Washington, DC	20,000	2016	2018
Banc of California Stadium	Los Angeles FC	Los Angeles, California	22,000	2016	2018
Minnesota United FC Stadium	Minnesota United FC	Saint Paul, Minnesota	20,000	2016	2018


World Rank
1	Bell Centre	21,273[1]	Montreal	Canada Canada	Montreal Canadiens (NHL) (1996–present)
2	Joe Louis Arena	20,066[2]	Detroit	 United States	Detroit Red Wings (NHL) (1979–present)
3	United Center	19,700[3]	Chicago	 United States	Chicago Blackhawks (NHL) (1995–present)
4	Wells Fargo Center	19,537[4]	Philadelphia	 United States	Philadelphia Flyers (NHL) (1996–present)
5	Scotiabank Saddledome	19,289[5]	Calgary	Canada Canada	Calgary Flames (NHL) (1983–present), Calgary Hitmen (WHL) (1995–present)
6	BB&T Center	19,250[6]	Sunrise	 United States	Florida Panthers (NHL) (1998–present)
7	Amalie Arena	19,204[7]	Tampa	 United States	Tampa Bay Lightning (NHL) (1996–present)
8	Canadian Tire Centre	19,153[8]	Ottawa	Canada Canada	Ottawa Senators (NHL) (1996–present)
9	Scottrade Center	19,150[9]	St. Louis	 United States	St. Louis Blues (NHL) (1994–present)
10	First Niagara Center	19,070[10]	Buffalo	 United States	Buffalo Sabres (NHL) (1996–present), Buffalo Bandits, (NLL) (1996–Present)
11	Rogers Arena	18,910[11]	Vancouver	Canada Canada	Vancouver Canucks (NHL) (1995–present)
12	Air Canada Centre	18,800[12]	Toronto	Canada Canada	Toronto Maple Leafs (NHL) (1999–present)
13	PNC Arena	18,680[13]	Raleigh	 United States	Carolina Hurricanes (NHL) (1999–present)
14	American Airlines Center	18,532[14]	Dallas	 United States	Dallas Stars (NHL) (2001–present)
15	Verizon Center	18,506[15]	Washington	 United States	Washington Capitals (NHL) (1997–present)
16	Lanxess Arena	18,500[16]	Cologne	Germany Germany	Cologne Sharks (DEL) (1998–present)
17	Consol Energy Center	18,387[17]	Pittsburgh	 United States	Pittsburgh Penguins (NHL) (2010–present)
18	The Moda Center	18,280	Portland	 United States	Portland Winterhawks (WHL) (1995–present)
19	Videotron Centre	18,259[18]	Quebec City	Canada Canada	Quebec Remparts (QMJHL) (2015–present)
20	Nationwide Arena	18,144[19]	Columbus	 United States	Columbus Blue Jackets (NHL) (2000–present)
21	Staples Center	18,118[20]	Los Angeles	 United States	Los Angeles Kings (NHL) (1999–present)
22	Xcel Energy Center	18,064[21]	St. Paul	 United States	Minnesota Wild (NHL) (2000–present)
23	Pepsi Center	18,007[22]	Denver	 United States	Colorado Avalanche (NHL) (1999–present)
24	Madison Square Garden (IV)	18,006[23]	New York City	 United States	New York Rangers (NHL) (1968–present)
25	BMO Harris Bradley Center	17,845[citation needed]	Milwaukee	 United States	Milwaukee Admirals (AHL) (1988–present)
26	Toyota Center	17,800[citation needed]	Houston	 United States	Houston Aeros (AHL) (2003–2013)
27	Prudential Center	17,625[24]	Newark	 United States	New Jersey Devils (NHL) (2007–present)
28	TD Garden	17,565[25]	Boston	 United States	Boston Bruins (NHL) (1995–present)
29	SAP Center at San Jose	17,562[26]	San Jose	 United States	San Jose Sharks (NHL) (1993–present), San Jose Barracuda (AHL) (2015–present)
30	Times Union Center	17,500[citation needed]	Albany	 United States	Albany Devils (AHL) (2010–present), Albany River Rats (AHL) (1993–2010), Albany Choppers (IHL) (1990–1991)
31	Value City Arena	17,500[27]	Columbus	 United States	Ohio State Buckeyes men's ice hockey (NCAA) (1998–present)
32	T-Mobile Arena	17,500[28]	Las Vegas	 United States	Las Vegas NHL team (as of 2017)
33	FirstOntario Centre	17,383[citation needed]	Hamilton	Canada Canada	Hamilton Bulldogs (OHL) (1996–present)

35	Honda Center	17,174[29]	Anaheim	 United States	Anaheim Ducks (NHL) (1993–present)
37	Gila River Arena	17,125[30]	Glendale	 United States	Arizona Coyotes (NHL) (2003–present)
38	Bridgestone Arena	17,113[31]	Nashville	 United States	Nashville Predators (NHL) (1998–present)
39	BOK Center	17,096[32]	Tulsa	 United States	Tulsa Oilers (ECHL) (2008–present)
40	Rexall Place	16,839[5]	Edmonton	Canada Canada	Edmonton Oilers (NHL) (1974–present), Edmonton Oil Kings (WHL) (2007–present), Edmonton Road Runners (AHL) (2004–2005)
41	Allstate Arena	16,692[citation needed]	Rosemont	 United States	Chicago Wolves (AHL) (1994–present)
42	Pacific Coliseum	16,281[33]	Vancouver	Canada Canada	Vancouver Giants (WHL) (2001–present)
43	Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum	16,234[34]	Uniondale	 United States	New York Islanders (NHL) (1972–2015)
44	Barclays Center	15,813	Brooklyn	 United States	New York Islanders (NHL) (2015–present)
45	XL Center	15,635	Hartford	 United States	New England Whalers (WHA) (1975–1978), Hartford Whalers (NHL) (1980–1997), Connecticut Whale (AHL) (1997–present)
46	Wells Fargo Arena	15,581	Des Moines	 United States	 Iowa Wild (AHL) (2013–present)
47	MTS Centre	15,294[35]	Winnipeg	Canada Canada	Winnipeg Jets (NHL) (2011–present), Manitoba Moose (AHL) (2004–2011, 2015–present)
48	Kohl Center	15,237[36]	Madison	 United States	Wisconsin Badgers men's ice hockey (NCAA) (1998–present)[37]
49	SaskTel Centre	15,195	Saskatoon	Canada Canada	Saskatoon Blades (WHL) (1988–present), Saskatchewan Rush (NLL) (2016–present)

September 7th, 2016 at 6:33:15 AM permalink
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545	Quote: Pacomartin Hockey unfortunately was made popular by violence (at least in Philly). What else? It's not as if the players can do much more, other than skate around. Or do you believe this mythical "puck" thing is real? :) Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER