Windoze 8

October 17th, 2013 at 7:56:13 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
The big news for this week is Windows 8.1 It's out today. You can get it free if you already ahve Win8 installed (my condolences). Otherwise MS plans to charge you for it as though you were getting a real OS. I think they should run a "Desktop Special" and charge, say, 30% less to thsoe who will use only the desktop portion of the system (it can come with the M/M/W and Charms disabled; start menu replacement is extra).

This is supposed to be the salvation of Microsoft, Intel and the PC industry.

We'll see.

What I'd like to know, say three months from now, or six, is how the numbers stack up between Win8.1 vs Win7. Because in the past few months Win8 grew a bit as a share of installs in new or existing PCs, but Win7 grew more. It seems some businesses, in aprticualr, are upgrading from XP to Win7, not to Win8, despite the former system's shorter support life-span.

Office 2010 is also growing more than Office365, naturally. I, for one, would not ever get Office 365. I haven't even seen it, but I'm not about to pay $100 a month (sorry, that's $99 a month) indefinetly for one program. Yes, I know the suscription model is "the thing" these days, what with "the cloud" and all, but I doubt it will fly with consumers. I know it won't fly with me. We have options now. There's Libre Office, if nothing else. I expect Google's Open Office to be avialable for Windows, too, if it isn't already.

Oh, please don't tell me about updates. It was the lack of automated updates that allowed us to keep Office 2003 far, far, far longer than would have been the case. Imagine the software suite you've spent years mastering suddenly comes up oen day looking completely different, and you can't change it back. Nice, eh?

But we're talking about Windows 8.1. I think adoption will prove just as anemic as its predecessor's, but I've been wrong before. In any case, what we won't know well, or not well enough, is how many users will get it, but will run Start8 or some other start menu replacement, and run few, if any, M/M/W apps at all. That would be something worth knowing.

Of course, the vast majority of PCs running Win8 now will certainly update to 8.1. After all, it's free, and half a gnat's hair's tick's leg's less annoying than the original, even without improvements like Classic Shell or Pokki or Start Menu Reviver. I expect MS, therefore, to trumpet the early numbers of Win8.1 downloads, saying stuff like "55 million updates downloaded in the first week!!!!!!" Then the pundits will let you know 96.82% of these were updates to Win8, not new installs.

And still missing, BTW, will be the other magic number: what percentage of machines sold with Win8 or 8.1 have upgraded to Win7?

And so it goes (though I think the propper expression in this context should be "Would you buy it for a quarter?" But of course, that reference is much too obscure; but feel free to ask about it).
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 17th, 2013 at 1:44:52 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Nareed
Office 2010 is also growing more than Office365, naturally. I, for one, would not ever get Office 365. I haven't even seen it, but I'm not about to pay $100 a month (sorry, that's $99 a month) indefinetly for one program.


My mistake. That's $100 a year.

The Times regrets the error ;)

But everything else stands. I don't want to keep paying for software as if it were on rental (as if? as IF?), nor do I want to be unwittingly, and unkowingly, updated to the next version until I've seen it first. I know much of what will count as updates will be patches, but still...

BTW does anyone know where I can find out how to delete a partition? I'm about done with the Win8.1 preview and quite ready to begin delving into the mysteries (and, let us be frank, myseries as well) of Linux Mint.But I need to get rid of the preview and use that space, or repartition the disk if need be, to install it.

Thanks.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 18th, 2013 at 7:45:11 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Microsoft has invented a new religion: Tablet Cult

Well, not really. But the comparison is apt. There is a quasi-religious trait, it's not a formal religion, known as Cargo Cult. The name comes from the practice of natives in small Pacific islands of recreating the look of WWII airfields, in an effort to lure aircraft laden with cargo to land there again.

See, in WWII US and British air fields were set up in many such islands. Cargo planes constantly alnded to deliver supplies (food, medicine, office materials, spare parts, jeeps, etc, etc, etc). Naturally when the war ended, or when the usefulness of a specific location ended, the Americans, Brittons and others (Australians and New Zelanders for instance), gathered their things and left. And the cargo palnes stopped landing. Ergo the Cargo Cult followed.

Well, what has that got to do with Microsoft? Let us find out.

Around the time when Windows XP was introduced, MS also came up with something called the tablet PC. Some referred to them as Pen-top Computers (after laptop computers) because one used a stylus as an input device. These were not very popular and never really caught on. As late as Vista, though, there is a subfolder in the Control Panel for Tablet PC, all this years before the iPad.

There are numerous such failures, of course, most of them residing in obscurity. The difference this time is that another company ran with the concept, made it work, and achieved a HUGE success with it; in fact it revolutionized the computer market.

One reason why MS's tablet idea failed was that they tried to put the desktop in the tablet, together with a rather good PC. That is, these things were full laptops without a keyboard and track pad, operated instead through a screen with a stylus (but then that seems similar to the ill-fated Apple Newton of an even earlier time).

Apple's success was not as sudden as it appears. consider the evolutionary line from the iPod to the video-capable iPod touch, to the iPhone and thence to the iPad. But the thing all these products have in common, and share with the Android phones and tablts, is they run full-screen mobile (limited) apps in a touch screen.

And here's where MS has gone tablet cult: if the key to a successful tablet/phone OS is full-screen mobile apps in a touch screen, then let's use only full-screen mobile apps in a touch screen in all computing devices, be they tablets, phones, desktops, laptops, notebooks or netbooks!

Consider, too, that both Apple and Google make desktop/laptop OSes not based on touch and not, necessarily, employing full-screen mobile apps. Apple has OS X and Google has Chrome OS. I know little about these systems, so I won't comment more on them, but my statement does stand.

So that's the high tech version of primitive, isolated people trying to summon back the cargo planes.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 23rd, 2013 at 7:45:27 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
I expect this week will be dominated by Apple's new toys and OS update. So we likely will hear little, if anything, about the progress, or lack thereof, Win8.1 makes.

In the meantime let's consider both parts that make all operating systems. Call them the code and the itnerface. The code is how the OS runs, the interface is how the OS is used. Of ocurse they are interdependent, but separating them gives an interesting tool for analysis.

Consider the much reviled Windows Vista. Its problems all lie with the code. It's slow, it seizes up, it freezes, etc. But the interface was somewhat of an improvement over WinXP. The code problems were patched by service packs, but really the problem was solved by Win7; though frankly I've issues with the Win7 interface. I misslike the idea of pinning programs to the taskbar, I find the jumplists superflous and unnecessary (and redundant <w>), MS should have left the quick launch icons or given an easy means to recover them (easy: not requiring looking things up in the web and then mucking about with the control panel in arcane ways), and more.

Now, Win8.1 has an amazing code. I'm skeptical of the boot time claims and other things, as all PCs I've ever owned, clear back to DOS 4.01, all boot and run very fast at first, then get slow and cranky as they age; including Windows Vista, too. But that aside, it does run very well, and has given me zero problems regarding compatibility, even with old, old programs. It's very good, and I will buy without reservations the claims by the fan base that it is the best code MS has ever written.

As I am fond of saying: Yes, but so what?

Because the interface in Win8.1 fails at all levels, at least for the desktop user. I won't rehash all the arguments, as you can find them all in this thread, or elsewhere in the board, and are probably sick and tired of hearing them (I'm sick of making them, but not tired).

In the end I would rather run an inferior quality code, say Win7, and have a good interface instead. I won't rehash that either.

What I will do is comment on a sentiment that's running on tech sites recently. The Surface Pro 2, recently released, is being touted as a 3-in-1 device. Meaning it can serve as a tablet, laptop and desktop (the latter two with a docking stationa dn keaybaord, and the last with a monitor as well), which furhter gives you the advantage of having a "consistent" experience on all three devices.

That sounds good, but let's look at the itnerface. We already know why I think it faisl as a laptop or desktop, but how about as a tablet? I admit I would need to try to use Win8.1 in tablet form, but thus far it seems needlessly complicated and arcane comapred to Android. For one thing, Win8.1 still has hidden controls, som of shich are needed to operate parts of every app, not just the OS.

Here's a simple example:

Suppose you're web browsing and run across a very nice dress you want to put up on Pinterest. In Android I tap and hold the image and get a pop-up menu which includes "share," from there I choose Pinterest. In Win 8.1, I'd ahve to swipe from the right side of the screen to bring up the "charms," then pick share, then hopefully it will work with the browser I'm using and let me choose Pinterest. Then I'm not so sure how to pick a particualr photo, but pressumably it would work.

See?

And I should want to ahve that bureaucratic type experience on all my devices? Imagine changing channels that way on a TV!

But perhaps it's part of the Cargo Cult mind set, combined with Christianity: There is no way to the Web but through Windows 8.1

Well, that's two cheap shots in one sentence, and that's enough >:)
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 24th, 2013 at 12:55:07 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
This si silly, but maybe a bit clever.

There's been talk of rebranding Windows, which would actually make sense. but then MS is a blithering idiot, figuratevly speaking, when it comes to branding.

Anyway MS should rebrand its flagship product Windows 8.1 as:

W I N D O S

Of course it would still be pronounced "windows," but it would now stand for something. Namely:

Windows
Is
Not
(a)
Desktop
Operating
System

I think I'll start a Facebook page under that anme (which probably has been taken already)
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 28th, 2013 at 2:57:39 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
About "apps," I heartily dislike the whole idea.

In a tablet they amke sense. but that's because, as I'mm too fond of saying again and again, tablets are rather limited. That is, the screen is small, the keyboard is small and difficult to use, there's no mouse or convenient pointing device with multiple functions (select, double click, right click, scroll, and more if you use one with more buttons), there ar eno function or control keys, even.

So, sure, a Facebook or Pinterest app makes more sense than trying to use FB or Pinterest in the tablet's browser.

But imagine this had been the model for the itnernet, rather than an all-purpose display program like Netscape (back in the day). How would you even find out about all the stuff out there? Of course the idea is ridiculous. Developments breed further developments, after all. And while there's no set path, some things require the existence of a prior art.

And yet it's sensible, too. What happens now that people are, allegedly, junking PCs for tablets (and phones) and using specific apps rather than all-purpose ones? Will people browse app stores in order to find what's new in online shopping, social networking, news, etc?

I mention this because WINDOS (that's my new nickname for Windows 8.1; see my tagline) puts a great deal of emphasis in apps. It even relegates the entirety of the desktop, browser, office and file explorer, to an app tile lost among many other "apps" in the start screen (think of that when you ehar the start screen is an expanded start menu).

With the tablet I don't mind using an app for a specific function, not related to web browsing. For example, an Audible app makes perfect sense, as does the Kobo app, the Dogcatcher podcast app, etc. Still, I wouldn't mind a single app for both Audible's audio books and independent podcasts, or a single app for both Kindle and Kobo ebooks.

But using an app for Gmail, one for Facebook, one for Pinterest, etc, seems ridiculously wasteful when there's a web browser that does it all.

Of course, as noted, the tablet, in particualr the 7" Nexus I own, is very limited. But the desktop PC isn't limited at all, not even a littel bit. The desktop PC was designed to wield prodigious amounts of computing power. People are fond of saying their phone is a more capable computer than, say, the early PCs, or those used in the Space Shuttle. this is true. but a single high-end PC today probably has more ocmputing power than the wentire world did in the early 1950s. And a modern server farm mindlessly relaying email and routing web requests, does more computing than the entire world did in the 1970s (no, I don't ahve data to abck this up, but it stands to reason).

So, apps in a desktop PC? I'll pass.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 31st, 2013 at 10:07:28 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Posts: 12545
Oh, good, MS has new plans:

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/microsofts-plan-sell-windows-holiday-season#comment-456791

You can read my comments there, but you won't find much that is new.

I find the idea of a $25 gift card for the app store ludicrous. First, it doesn't come close to begin covering the extra expense of the touch screen. Second, the M/M/W apps are useless to 99% of us desktop diehards. Third, this move will drive up the price of desktop PCs. Why? Simple. Manufacturers will likely push touch screens, rising up the price of desktop PCs. I've seen this already. The touch screen PCs get louder ads from local stores. If the price is to be kept down, that will mean sacrificing performance.

I'll still wait a few months for a new PC, then. If the holiday season is disappointing, the prices will come down.

About apps, I understand the need to charge for some apps, but I also find it easy to resist the urge to do so. Thus far I've paid for one Android app for the Nexus, a rather good podcast player (it downloads the content, changes to a different podcast when you reach the end of one and has other useful features). I ahve paid for a few books in Kindle and Kobo, to be sure, and for audible. But that's content, not apps.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
November 4th, 2013 at 8:25:02 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Now Microsoft is trumpeting security as a reason to downgrade to Windows 8(.1) (any move to Win8(.1) is a downgrade by definition, even if you're running Windows 98 right now; so sayeth I).

Never mind that alck of security comes, in aprt, by MS's decision not to support WinXP any more. Ok, I won't blame them for that, as one cannot expect any company to keep supporting an old product for no additional cost forever. And MS did provide ample warning. But why not sell extended security support? Maybe it wouldn't be good business, but I've heard nothing about it.

Anyway, regardless fo the XPocalypse (that will do for a ridiculous term until a better one comes along), Microsoft is also pointing out vulnerabilities in Win7. Really? That OS is less than 4 years old and is fully supported. Hmm.

I am concerned about XP. I use it at work. In fact, all the machines that we use to upload propposals to the government's purchasing site(s) use XP. The law does state clearly is a propposal carries a virus with it, it will be disqualified ipso facto (by "virus" it also means sorm, trojan, malware or anything else that sets off a commercial virus scanner). We only upload Word, Excel, PDF and JPEG files, though, not exceutables, or zipped files containing only Word, Excel, PDF or JPEG files. But there's an electronic signature required, and I've no idea how that works. I mean, i know how to use the site to do it, but not what it does. So there's a chance a "virus" could get through.

I've pointed this out to my boss, his boss and the IT dept. several times, but ahve yet to receive any kind fo reply.

Back on topic, I've no doubt Win8(.1) is more secure than anything MS has released before. And from trying th preview I know it's faster and more stable.

So what?

It's like the car analogy I've made. What would be the use fo a super-efficient car which only amkes left turns, cannot go faster than 30 mph and has the controls hidden and/or changed? If you can't drive it, and if you can't get where you want easily or in time when you manage to drive it, it's small consolation that it gets 7 million miles per gallon.

So, dear Microsoft, until you make Win8(.1) easy and useful, which means put the START MENU back in and stop trying to make people work in M/M/W "apps," I care not even a tiny iota how secure, fast or stable Win8(.1) happens to be.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
November 5th, 2013 at 8:02:53 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Much has been said that Win8(.1) is a radical change, but that MS has done such radical changes to its interfaces before. More commonly it gets compared to the change between Windows 3.1 to Windows 95. Naturally with the implication that just as Win95 was a marked improvement, so is Win8(.1).

To paraphrase Penn & Teller: Humbug.

The siturations are hardly comaprable. for one thing Windows was only ten years old when Win95 was released. The Win95-type interface, with a start menu and taskbar, was 17 years old when Win8(.1) launched. More importantly, PC users at the time were split, largely, between Windows and DOS. But what gets overlooked more is that the Win95 interface worked very much like the old Win3. That is to say, there were eindows, which could be minimized, maximized and resized and closed in exactly the same manner, there was a desktop, there were icons on the desktop, and both Win3 and Win95 relied on a mouse and keyboard.

Further, Win95 was a boon for Windows programs and even more so for DOS programs. I don't recall whether Win3 software could run on Win95, but DOS programs ran just fine. They ran better, in some sense, as multitasking became easier and managing multiple instances of DOS software could be done with a simple glance at the taskbar.

In comaprison the M/M/W interface does not ahve a taskbar, does not let you minimize or close windows in the same way, does not let you resize them any waty you wish, and you can't keep more than 4 windows opened at once (and that with a large display at high resolution, otherwise you're limited to a grand total of 2). Not to mention desktop programs don't run at al in M/M/W and cannot be managed from there either. If you have fifteen windows running in the desktop, the M/M/W reduces them to a single "tile" labelled "desktop."

Nice.

The only thing that's the same is that in Win95 DOS programs did not itneract with the Win95 environment at all. For example, you couldn't copy text from DOS to Win95 or viceversa.

A redesign or a radical change is just that, if taken out of context. In context it may or may not make sense. Simply saying "It's as big a change as the last one," tells you nothing.

So what is the context?

Win95 focused on extending and augmenting the capabilites of the desktop PC. This remained true of all the successor systems, even when they failed spectacualrly (I'm looking at you, Windows 98Me (Mistake Edition) and Windows Vista). Windows 8(.1) is not focused on this goal at all. Rather it tries to 1) be a tablet/phone OS and 2) give you the same "experience" across devices; that is across phones, tablets and desktop/laptop PCs.

The last reminds me of Meatloaf's song "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad." In this song a boy tells a girl "I want you, I need you, but there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you. But don't be sad, 'cause two out of three ain't bad." Win8(.1) may work well on phones and tablets, but it doesn't work at all on desktop/laptops PCs. And if all you really care about is the desktop PC where you do most of your work and the laptop PC where you do some of your work, but not the tablet or phone where you do little to no work at all, then let me tell you two out of three is pretty damned bad.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
November 5th, 2013 at 1:52:11 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
No one even reads these, right? :)

That's ok. I expect I'll repost them, eventually, if/when I decide to set up a Facebook page, or maybe a blog, about preserving the desktop in WINDOS.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER