Calexit

Poll
5 votes (62.5%)
1 vote (12.5%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (12.5%)
1 vote (12.5%)

8 members have voted

February 19th, 2017 at 6:32:16 AM permalink
Wizard
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Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 129
Posts: 2834
Quote: AZDuffman
I did have to laugh where it said CA is underrepresented in POTUS elections. That could be the real fissure point. CA thinks they are not represented enough, most of the rest of the USA thinks they have too much influence. No way to bridge that gap.


That's true. With every state getting two free electoral votes, the ratio of electoral votes to population is lowest in California. I'm not sure if this also part of their point but with California leaning so heavily blue, they probably feel left out in terms of candidate attention.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
February 19th, 2017 at 7:45:41 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 95
Posts: 5855
Quote: Wizard
That's true. With every state getting two free electoral votes, the ratio of electoral votes to population is lowest in California. I'm not sure if this also part of their point but with California leaning so heavily blue, they probably feel left out in terms of candidate attention.





They get no attention because they are going to vote one way anyhow. Of course many states are the same boat, just the huge population there emphasizes it.

I do see this as the same as Scotland now and Lithuania a generation ago. I remember the later in 1989, they declare independence and the USSR could not stop it short of making the place an occupied zone under martial law. Some laughed, but just years later all the Baltics were given independence. People dismiss Calexit at their own peril.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
February 19th, 2017 at 12:47:45 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 648
Posts: 7426
Quote: Wizard
That's true. With every state getting two free electoral votes, the ratio of electoral votes to population is lowest in California.


States with a single congressional district in some sense get three votes per vote cast.
District of Columbia At-large
Alaska At-large
Montana At-large
Wyoming At-large
South Dakota At-large
North Dakota At-large
Vermont At-large
Delaware At-large

Quote: Wizard
I'm not sure if this also part of their point but with California leaning so heavily blue, they probably feel left out in terms of candidate attention.


President Trump won 25 counties in California. There is nothing in the constitution that says a state should vote "winner take all". California will get a lot more attention.
February 19th, 2017 at 3:49:18 PM permalink
stinkingliberal
Member since: Nov 9, 2016
Threads: 17
Posts: 731
Quote: Pacomartin
States with a single congressional district in some sense get three votes per vote cast.
District of Columbia At-large
Alaska At-large
Montana At-large
Wyoming At-large
South Dakota At-large
North Dakota At-large
Vermont At-large
Delaware At-large



President Trump won 25 counties in California. There is nothing in the constitution that says a state should vote "winner take all". California will get a lot more attention.


I think many Californians don't want to live in a country
Where their votes count 1/3 as much as those in other states
Where companies can freely dump waste into rivers
Where there are no environmental regulations
Where there are no banking regulations
Where there is no public education
Where workers are routinely abused and underpaid and have no recourse
Where racial, religious, and gender discrimination are not only accepted but actually codified into law
Where coal instead of computers is the primary technology
Where an incompetent narcissist is the leader
Where only the rich can afford health care and no one else gets it


This is the country the Republicans want. This is the country they are trying to create. Why should California go along as the Republicans do everything they can to solidify absolute power?
February 19th, 2017 at 4:55:17 PM permalink
stinkingliberal
Member since: Nov 9, 2016
Threads: 17
Posts: 731
Quote: AZDuffman
They get no attention because they are going to vote one way anyhow. Of course many states are the same boat, just the huge population there emphasizes it.

I do see this as the same as Scotland now and Lithuania a generation ago. I remember the later in 1989, they declare independence and the USSR could not stop it short of making the place an occupied zone under martial law. Some laughed, but just years later all the Baltics were given independence. People dismiss Calexit at their own peril.


Those aren't great parallels, though, because both Scotland and Lithuania were conquered and absorbed, whereas California was an independent nation that joined the US voluntarily. I see the most apt comparison as Quebec. Quebecoise see themselves as socially, culturally, and of course, linguistically distinct from the rest of Canada and have never been all that thrilled with being in the Canadian federation. At least two secession referenda have failed narrowly. Of course, Canadian provinces have more autonomy than US states have.

That's why the first Calexit move will be a petition to amend the CA constitution so as to validate the state's right to secede from the Union. Right now, it doesn't say that its participation in the Union is voluntary and can be rescinded at any time, which is what the Calexit advocates want.

What I'd really like to see is the nation of Pacifica. WA, OR, CA, HI, and Clark and Washoe counties from Nevada. It would be a self-sufficient economic powerhouse, and no longer being crippled by having to help pay for the foibles of the flyover states, would very quickly become the richest nation (per capita) on earth, with a progressive society and advanced technology.

(I left out Alaska because Moose Shooter Lady wouldn't allow the state to join.)
February 19th, 2017 at 6:02:27 PM permalink
Wizard
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Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 129
Posts: 2834
Quote: Pacomartin
There is nothing in the constitution that says a state should vote "winner take all". California will get a lot more attention.


In fact, doesn't Maine divide them according to the vote within Maine, or maybe by regions with Maine?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
February 19th, 2017 at 6:06:55 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 129
Posts: 2834
Quote: stinkingliberal
What I'd really like to see is the nation of Pacifica. WA, OR, CA, HI, and Clark and Washoe counties from Nevada. It would be a self-sufficient economic powerhouse, and no longer being crippled by having to help pay for the foibles of the flyover states, would very quickly become the richest nation (per capita) on earth, with a progressive society and advanced technology.


I support the Cascadia independence movement. Largely because I have an interest in ridiculous causes that have no chance at success.



I'm proud to say I've climbed four of the Cascade volcanoes.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
February 19th, 2017 at 6:45:31 PM permalink
stinkingliberal
Member since: Nov 9, 2016
Threads: 17
Posts: 731
Quote: Wizard
I support the Cascadia independence movement. Largely because I have an interest in ridiculous causes that have no chance at success.



I'm proud to say I've climbed four of the Cascade volcanoes.


Doesn't Cascadia include British Columbia and NOT California? Or maybe some iterations of it include the State of Jefferson. BC has quite a history of semi-independence. In fact, they said they weren't even going to join Canada back in 1867 unless the federal government bankrolled the Trans-Canadian railroad.

I've climbed Thielsen, South Sister, Hood, and Lassen. The last one was easy; the other three, not so much.
February 19th, 2017 at 8:38:41 PM permalink
Wizard
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Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 129
Posts: 2834
Quote: stinkingliberal
Doesn't Cascadia include British Columbia and NOT California?


Yep. The Cascade range extends into BC. Cascadia also includes parts of northern California, including Mount Shasta and Lassen.

Quote:
I've climbed Thielsen, South Sister, Hood, and Lassen. The last one was easy; the other three, not so much.


Mount Hood! Pretty impressive. That is the only one I've done on your list. I've heard the three sisters are no walk in the park either.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
February 20th, 2017 at 2:51:10 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 648
Posts: 7426
Quote: Wizard
In fact, doesn't Maine divide them according to the vote within Maine, or maybe by regions with Maine?


Maine and Nebraska give one vote for each congressional district, and two votes for the majority winner of the state. This allocation method is heavily favored by many progressives as a practical compromise to the simple popular vote.

As a general rule in the last few decades, Democrats win certain congressional districts (like those in the Bronx) by an overhwhelmingly high percentage points. Given the voting pattern in 2012 Mitt Romney would have beaten Barack Obama in electoral college votes using this alternative allocation method.

Obama, ‘won’ 209 districts while Governor Romney, ‘won’ 226 giving Romney a lead of 15 electoral college votes.
Obama, 'won' 2 states + DC more than Governor Romney which would have given him 6 more electoral college votes, which was not enough to beat the 15 extra from the congressional districts.

However, voting patterns may have been different if campaigning was aimed at a different allocation method.