Can Hillary Still Win?

Quote: Nareed

Therefore it makes sense the more access to guns overall, the more successful suicides overall.

If a person wants to kill themselves and doesn't have a gun, they
will find another way. Believe me.

Research suggests that in many suicides there's a short window of determination. The longer it takes to find a method, the less likely the person is to follow through. People get the idea and follow through. If the follow through takes too long, sometimes something else kicks in (or someone else kicks in). While it's true many suicidal people will complete the work regardless of the method, others will not if there's sufficient gap between the idea and the action. Guns shorten that time.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/the-link-between-suicide-and-guns

Suicide rates are tend to be lower in countries with less access to guns.

Quote:

Evenbob What a depressing
job.

So it was a paid job then, not a volunteer thing? I can't imagine dealing with that kind of depression regularly.

Quote: TheCesspit

Research suggests that in many suicides there's a short window of determination.

'Many'? Some is more like it. Most people
who commit suicide have thought about it
as a way out for years. If they don't do it
today for a lack of means, they'll find a
way next week. Blaming suicide on guns
shows a willful ignorance of what the
origins suicide are about.

Quote: petroglyph

So it was a paid job then, not a volunteer thing? I can't imagine dealing with that kind of depression regularly.

It was a real downer job. There was a whole
training seminar you had to go thru, lots
of things you could and couldn't say. What
you find out is, you may talk somebody
out if it today, but chances are many of
them end up doing it later anyway. It's
an impulse many have a hard time resisting.

A friend on mine killed himself 20 years
ago. His wife had a miscarriage and he
thought it was his fault. He talked about
suicide for months, and finally hit a tree
at 100 mph. He would stick his .45 in
his mouth when he was drunk and say
he was doing it. Nobody was surprised
when he died.

Quote: TheCesspit

Research suggests that in many suicides there's a short window of determination. The longer it takes to find a method, the less likely the person is to follow through. People get the idea and follow through. If the follow through takes too long, sometimes something else kicks in (or someone else kicks in). While it's true many suicidal people will complete the work regardless of the method, others will not if there's sufficient gap between the idea and the action. Guns shorten that time.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/the-link-between-suicide-and-guns

Suicide rates are tend to be lower in countries with less access to guns.

Well stated..... but.... I still don't want the government always protecting me from myself. The most obvious example is motorcycles. Eliminate motorcycles and deaths and severe morbidity drop per passenger mile. Significantly. Boxing/MMA--- I can only imagine the long term neurological problems.....
Etc....
If I showed you a link that proves a certain antidepressant (which has some unpleasant side effects) cuts suicide risk in half, would you FORCE people to use it, or just give them an option?

It is the same conversation as speed limits. Highway deaths do track speed limits. Obviously then all we need to do is make the speed limit 0 and we can eliminate all highway deaths.

Suicide rate in Canada in 2016 was 11.5 / 100K of population. US in 2014 was 13 / 100K of population. The US was higher by 10% but gun ownership is much higher so I don't think gun controls would make much of a dint in the suicide rate. The highest rate demographic in the US was males 45-64 years old. As Bob said this age group probably has been thinking about suicide for a while and would find a way as they did in Canada. US suicides are also increasing among females who are unlikely to use a gun.

You guys should just argue that guns decrease suicides. And then make up a reason.

The majority of our gun lobby doesn't like basic research on guns being done because it tends to expose the flaws in many of the their arguments.

If the research supported the majority of their arguments, they'd be funding independent research just to prove it to everyone.

Ultimately they just yell it's a right. Which I understand at least. It's their easiest defense.

Quote: rxwine

Ultimately they just yell it's a right. Which I understand at least. It's their easiest defense.

Do you believe suicide is a right?