War on coal

In 2008 the last of President Bush's presidency, coal produced 225% more power than natural gas. In July of 2015 Natural gas surpassed coal as a source of electricity. For the end of year 2015, coal was still higher, but for the last 12 months running coal has been 86% of natural gas.

But Trump has vowed to stop the war on coal in an effort to have cheaper power. Coal and Natural gas and petroleum still produce 2/3 of the country's electricity (65%), with wind less than 5%.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/tech/science/environment/2016/11/11/trump-presidency-end-so-called-war-coal/93537586/

Trump said he will unleash unfettered production of oil, coal, natural gas and other energy sources to push the United States toward energy independence.

Kentucky remains the nation's third leading coal producing state, even though the coal industry in Kentucky has been sharply diminished. The state's coal production declined from 121 million tons in 2008 to 61 million tons last year, while employment fell from 17,670 jobs to 9,493. Coal dominate electricity generation in both Kentucky and Indiana, which is also a coal mining state.

But in the election's aftermath, it was also unclear just how many of those thousands of lost coal mining jobs will ever return, especially in eastern Kentucky, which has been hit harder than western Kentucky. Coal will still have to compete with cheaper, cleaner natural gas, and Trump has also said he wants more natural gas developed.

The acting president of the Kentucky Coal Association, Nick Carter, acknowledged that what's largely left of eastern Kentucky coal is in "thinner, dirtier seams farther away from transportation," making it more expensive and less competitive. Mining jobs there "are not coming back tomorrow, and many of those people have left," Carter said. Still, he said, the coal association welcomed Trump's election.

Half of the electric energy generated by coal in the USA is done in 9 states.

8.99% TX 8.99%
5.79% IN 14.78%
5.46% IL 20.24%
5.37% KY 25.61%
5.31% OH 30.92%
5.03% WV 35.95%
4.83% MO 40.78%
4.78% PA 45.56%
3.91% MI 49.48%

We can be energy independent without fouling our skies and water by developing renewable sources. Obama recognized this, but Republicans opposed him because they perceived it was something he wanted--no better reason.

Trump's coal/energy position is/was all about getting Joe Sixpack to vote for him. The best thing to do for Joe would be to train him to manufacture solar panels, not send him back down into the coal mines.

Quote: stinkingliberal

We can be energy independent without fouling our skies and water by developing renewable sources. Obama recognized this, but Republicans opposed him because they perceived it was something he wanted--no better reason.

Trump's coal/energy position is/was all about getting Joe Sixpack to vote for him. The best thing to do for Joe would be to train him to manufacture solar panels, not send him back down into the coal mines.

Sometines the sun don't shine.

Quote: stinkingliberal

We can be energy independent without fouling our skies and water by developing renewable sources. Obama recognized this, but Republicans opposed him because they perceived it was something he wanted--no better reason.

Trump's coal/energy position is/was all about getting Joe Sixpack to vote for him. The best thing to do for Joe would be to train him to manufacture solar panels, not send him back down into the coal mines.

If solar were so competitive it would not require subsidies and quotas.

And to make solar still requires mining.

Quote: pew

Sometines the sun don't shine.

So if someone was handing out free $100 bills on the street corner, but he was only there 12 hours out of 24, you wouldn't go there?

Quote: stinkingliberal

So if someone was handing out free $100 bills on the street corner, but he was only there 12 hours out of 24, you wouldn't go there?

If you had a choice of power to your house all the time or less than half which would you choose?

Quote: AZDuffman

If you had a choice of power to your house all the time or less than half which would you choose?

I have friends in Northern Idaho that live off the grid
Solar and batteries
They watch TV at night

Quote: terapined

I have friends in Northern Idaho that live off the grid
Solar and batteries
They watch TV at night

I'm sure they do.

What are they paying?

How much do they have to watch nighttime consumption?

Possible <> scalable.

Quote: AZDuffman

If you had a choice of power to your house all the time or less than half which would you choose?

There are these things called batteries...I believe that even Republicans have heard of them.

The real question to ask is, "If you had a choice between free power and power you had to continually pay for, which would you choose?"

How much the infrastructure costs is irrelevant to that question, but a solar plant is cheaper to build and operate than a fossil fuel plant.

Quote: Pacomartin

In 2008 the last of President Bush's presidency, coal produced 225% more power than natural gas. In July of 2015 Natural gas surpassed coal as a source of electricity. For the end of year 2015, coal was still higher, but for the last 12 months running coal has been 86% of natural gas.
Half of the electric energy generated by coal in the USA is done in 9 states.

8.99% TX 8.99%
5.79% IN 14.78%
5.46% IL 20.24%
5.37% KY 25.61%
5.31% OH 30.92%
5.03% WV 35.95%
4.83% MO 40.78%
4.78% PA 45.56%
3.91% MI 49.48%

Another way to look at is the percentage of the states electricity that is generated with coal. Texas may use the most coal as an absolute amount, but it's electrical energy requirement is huge, so only 27% of the total comes from coal

94.1% WV<==================
88.0% WY
86.9% KY<==================
78.1% MO<==================
75.5% UT
75.2% IN<==================
74.6% ND
62.5% NM
60.6% NE
60.2% CO
58.8% OH<==================
56.0% WI
54.6% MT
54.0% KS
52.6% IA
46.8% MI<==================
43.3% MN
40.7% TN
39.1% AR
38.3% MD
38.0% IL<==================
32.7% OK
32.0% AZ
31.1% NC
30.1% PA<==================
28.8% GA
27.2% AL
27.0% TX <==================
23.4% SC
20.4% VA
18.1% FL
15.5% SD
14.1% LA
13.2% HI
9.9% MS
7.7% DE
7.0% MA
6.8% NV
4.7% NH
4.6% WA
4.1% OR
2.4% NJ
1.7% NY
1.6% CT
0.8% ME
0.5% ID
0.2% CA
0.0% DC
0.0% RI
0.0% VT


It is relatively easy for Californians to declare war on coal since there are no economic consequences. In West Virginia the consequences of rebuilding the entire states electric generation plants is horrendous.