California Bullet Train LA to SanFran

China announces intent to construct a 650 mph train.
/.
Will workon 12oo mph hyperloop also.

Quote: Fleastiff

China announces intent to construct a 650 mph train.
/.

Sounds wildly impractical.

Quote: AZDuffman

Sounds wildly impractical.

No it is true. China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) has announced plans to build a train in a tunnel with most of the air sucked out of it. The lack of air pressure means that they can achieve 1000 km/hr = 621 mph.

No word of a route, but Hangzhou, Zhejiang, to Shanghai (about 124 miles) is often mentioned as a potential to try out new technologies. Since the route is so short, it would presumably reach top speed for less than a minute.

The bullet train from the airport is 30.5 km long and reaches a top speed of 431 km/h very briefly and has been running since 2004. It has always been hoped that a continuation of the maglev train would go the additional 200 km to Hangzhou. But now they are talking of speeds of 1000 km/hr instead of 431 km/hr.

Quote: Pacomartin

No it is true. China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) has announced plans to build a train in a tunnel with most of the air sucked out of it. The lack of air pressure means that they can achieve 1000 km/hr = 621 mph.

I do not deny it is true, I am saying just because you can does not mean that you should. All that extra speed really only matters as the haul gets long distance. Fewer people want to travel that long distance. Add in stops and you lose the benefit.

China is really a coastal nation, much of the interior is uninhabitable or/and sparsely populated. I don't see the cost/benefit.

Other concern is at that speed people are going to have to really be belted in good. Will riders accept this?

Quote: AZDuffman

I do not deny it is true, I am saying just because you can does not mean that you should.

Well the top speed of a Boeing 777 is 950 km/hr. So it does seem that a jet aircraft is more sensible than building a 1000km/hr train. However, the train through a vacuum tube may eventually reach speeds of 4000 km/hr with much less environmental damage or noise than hypersonic aircraft.

Many people have felt that technology would be well suited to long distance neutrally buoyant tunnels so that you could cross oceans at high speeds where there is no need to stop

A similar question was asked when the Chinese proposed a train to go from Beijing to London in less than 2 days. A lot of people said "why?" since it would seem that airplanes are much more suited to those kind of travel ranges. London to Beijing is about 8000 km, so you can always fly in less than 10 hours Why spend 48 hours in a train?

Quote: Pacomartin

Well the top speed of a Boeing 777 is 950 km/hr. So it does seem that a jet aircraft is more sensible than building a 1000km/hr train. However, the train through a vacuum tube may eventually reach speeds of 4000 km/hr with much less environmental damage or noise than hypersonic aircraft.

Are you adding in the damage from construction of the train track?

Quote:

Many people have felt that technology would be well suited to long distance neutrally buoyant tunnels so that you could cross oceans at high speeds where there is no need to stop

A similar question was asked when the Chinese proposed a train to go from Beijing to London in less than 2 days. A lot of people said "why?" since it would seem that airplanes are much more suited to those kind of travel ranges. London to Beijing is about 8000 km, so you can always fly in less than 10 hours Why spend 48 hours in a train?

I will throw in and make the statement that there is an efficient way to travel across the ocean at high speeds. It is called an airplane.

Train people say how fast a train can be endpoint to endpoint. But trains are efficient when they pick up and drop off fares all along the line. Upstate NY is the ideal example. You could make a really fast train from Buffalo to NYC, about 450 miles. This tune train could do it in lets say an hour to account for times even it must slow down.

But traffic from Buffalo to NYC would never pay for all that track. So you need fares from Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, Capital District, Westchester, and other stops. Each of these stops is 80-120 miles apart. Top-speed time is thus minimal, and all the board/disembark time must be added. On Amtrak it is a few minutes per stop, except Albany, where Engineer/Conductor teams swap out, about 10 minutes there.

An hour will be lost in actual stop time. More is lost in in start/slow slow/stop time. Is the public going to accept the discomfort of all that speed up/slow and stop? People are people in many ways, and IMHO the average Chinaman will not like it all that much same as the average New Yorker.


,

Quote: AZDuffman

Train people say how fast a train can be endpoint to endpoint. But trains are efficient when they pick up and drop off fares all along the line.

When the Shanghai Maglev opened in 2004 (18.95 mi) the full journey takes 7.3 minutes and the maximum normal operation speed of 431 km/h (268 mph). Naturally to make those speeds, there are no intermediate stops. By 2010 there was a subway that connected the same two endpoints, but it had 10 intermediate stops and had a normal operating speed of 50 mph. The subway is extended an addition 17.33 miles and connects to the downtown, two railway stations and the second airport in the metro area for a total of 31 stations. It is the busiest subway line in the city of Shanghai. The same journey would take about 45 minutes on the subway.

A one-way ticket Maglev costs ¥50 (US$8), or ¥40 ($6.40) for those passengers holding a receipt or proof of an airline ticket purchase. VIP tickets cost double the standard fare.

The maximum subway fare costs ¥9 (US$1.37) although some trips cost much less.

================
Even if you manage to build an ULTRA MAGELEV, or a neutrally buoyant train tunnel from NYC to London for $100 billion to make the trip in less than two hours the tickets may be so expensive that some people will opt to take a 7 hour flight.

Plus the passenger flying from Washington DC to Edinburgh Scotland may find that with the two land journeys, taking the ULTRA MAGLEV will be more time consuming that a nonstop flight from Washington to Edinburgh. Now that single aisle jets can make the distance, there will be more nonstop flights available.

I took the Shanghai maglev in 2009. In fact, I have a video of the experience. At the time, the train went only from the Pudong side of Shaghai to the international airport, which is way outside the city. I recall the cost of a ticket being pretty expensive. I heard they were planning or building an extension to Hangzhou, which sounds like a good idea to me. They are sister cities, like Chicago and Milwaukee. Hangzhou, by the way, is where I saw the 2009 eclipse.

Quote: Wizard

I took the Shanghai maglev in 2009. ... I heard they were planning or building an extension to Hangzhou, which sounds like a good idea to me.

Basic Facts of Shanghai – Hangzhou High Speed Trains
Open Date: October 26, 2010
Distance: about 200 km (124 mi)
Shortest Duration: 45 minutes

Currently, there are about 140 pairs of high speed trains running daily between Shanghai and Hangzhou. These bullet trains are operated at different railway stations in both cities.

The HSR is 202 km in length and designed for commercial train service at 350 km/h . It was built in 20 months and opened on October 26, 2010. Test runs reached 422 km/hr almost as fast as the 431 km/hr of the Maglev. This HSR essentially killed extending the Shanghai Maglev to Hangzhou. However, this renewed interest in Maglev in a tunnel with initial speeds of 1000 km/hr they may take another look at this route.

(1) A Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport, the world's fastest road legal production car with a top speed of 431 km/hr.
(2) Test runs for a maglev train have reached 603 km/hr in April 2015.
(3) The official land-speed record (measured over one mile) is 1,228 km/h (Mach 1.020), set by Andy Green (UK) on 15 October 1997 in the Black Rock Desert, Nevada, USA, in Thrust SSC.