Visa Ban

January 31st, 2017 at 7:04:07 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: pew
So why not Europeans?


There is in the end nothing inherently wrong with Eropeans immigrating to the USA
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
January 31st, 2017 at 8:10:15 AM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: pew
Bottom line. No one is able to come up with an answer. There is in the end nothing inherently wrong with a European immigrating to the U.S.ofA. other than blind prejudice.


They are less likely to do so, though. There's much less of an economic force to move across the Atlantic, and the cultural gap is there as well. I suspect there's still a good number wanting to head west though, as the IT sector is much more energetic in the US than Europe, and those angling to work hard, play hard and build new things will gravitate to the Valley (and other places).

I suspect the fall in percentages coming from Europe is just a lower desire, along with a increasing number of people from non-European sources having greater economic incentives to emigrate. And it tends to be those people who do move that have a burning desire to work hard, build new businesses and help the economy. Immigration, in general, is a net gain for a country.

It does not follow that unlimited immigration is an unlimited gain. Some barriers in place will filter out those who don't have the drive to succeed.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
January 31st, 2017 at 8:43:45 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: TheCesspit
It does not follow that unlimited immigration is an unlimited gain. Some barriers in place will filter out those who don't have the drive to succeed.


The point is that people on the right claim not to be against immigration, only against illegal immigration. they suggest illegals go back tot heir countries and stand in line for decades and come back legally (think about that for a minute).

Now they have no problem with Golden Boy refusing to admit legal immigrants who obtained student or work visas or green cards legally, if they're Muslims and come from seven countries picked for unclear reasons as hotbeds of potential terrorism. So are they against legal immigration by people they don't like? If they are, then they should admit it.

No one has suggested keeping Europeans out, or that immigration by Europeans is a bad thing.

What's a bad thing is barring any people from any place dues to origin, race, creed, or nationality.

This bad thing is made worse by hypocrisy.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
January 31st, 2017 at 8:52:40 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4923
Quote: Nareed
The point is that people on the right claim not to be against immigration, only against illegal immigration. they suggest illegals go back tot heir countries and stand in line for decades and come back legally (think about that for a minute).



It may be because some people prefer to live in a society where people observe and follow the laws.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
January 31st, 2017 at 9:20:37 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: DRich
It may be because some people prefer to live in a society where people observe and follow the laws.


That makes perfect sense when the law is sensible and can be followed. Not when the law is a horrid mess and is intended to place obstacles on those trying to follow it.

Basically if you don't have relatives living in the US, a job offer in certain specific types of jobs with an employer willing to navigate and finance all the legal aspects, are married or intend to marry a US citizen, it's impossible to immigrate legally to the US. Aside from that, the only options are to seek asylum or enter as a refugee.

That's a law designed to keep people out. If you had to face one tenth the hurdles to obtain a gun as there are barriers to immigration, either there'd be few guns in the US or there'd be millions of illegal guns.

And I don't think those opposed to immigration are so ignorant of the law as they pretend to be. You're left with the impression that immigrating to America is as easy as filing some paperwork and paying a fee.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
January 31st, 2017 at 9:33:24 AM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Quote: terapined
There is in the end nothing inherently wrong with Eropeans immigrating to the USA
Thank you. Finally some clarity.
January 31st, 2017 at 9:36:55 AM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
Threads: 4
Posts: 1232
Basically if you don't have relatives living in the US, a job offer in certain specific types of jobs with an employer willing to navigate and finance all the legal aspects, are married or intend to marry a US citizen, it's impossible to immigrate legally to the US. Aside from that, the only options are to seek asylum or enter as a refugee.

That's exactly as it should be and as it always has been.
January 31st, 2017 at 9:38:59 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Nareed
No one has suggested keeping Europeans out, or that immigration by Europeans is a bad thing.
What's a bad thing is barring any people from any place dues to origin, race, creed, or nationality.


People tend to emigrate because of need. Opportunity alone is usually not enough. Most countries in Europe are shrinking in population, so the people are older. Barring a major war there simply isn't the compelling reason for large numbers of people to move.
January 31st, 2017 at 9:45:18 AM permalink
reno
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 58
Posts: 1384
This story hasn't gotten as much attention as it deserves: Bannon didn't write this alone. He worked with aides & staff of several Congressmen. Moreover, the Congressmen were kept in the dark about the fact their own staff wrote the executive order. The aides were even required to sign nondisclosure agreements!

This was a short-sighted foolish error on Bannon's part. Did he not know these people can't keep secrets? Did it not occur to him that the Congressmen would be pissed when they found out? Why go behind the politicans' back? It's inevitable that it would cripple the White House's relationship with Congress.

This points to a bigger flaw in Bannon's approach to the Presidency. Winning a primary campaign and the the general election is about patiently eliminating opponents, one by one. But governing requires building broad coalitions to achieve legislative victories. The bigger the coalition, the more power they have to wield. Betraying the trust of Congressmen in their own party will not help the White House achieve legislative victories-- it makes their task more difficult, it's counterproductive. If Bannon pisses off GOP Congressmen, who's left? Democrats???

Friends come & go. Enemies accumulate.
January 31st, 2017 at 9:50:31 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4459
Quote: Nareed
That makes perfect sense when the law is sensible and can be followed.


And there lies the crux of the all our discussion on this board be it politics or religion. When we reserve the right to only follow the laws we agree with we can never have agreement among our selves about which actions are justified or not. A society will never have anything close to 100% agreement on what path it should be taking and sometimes one needs to accept what one really feels is not the correct path to keep a society from disintegrating.

This is the appeal of the religions of the world. We can abdicate definition of right and wrong to a higher infallible source. Of course many have doubts that this source exists or, if the higher source exists, that the order he presents has run through many centuries of human filtering and no longer reflects the original direction.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin