Gasoline powered generators

January 21st, 2013 at 4:35:16 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
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I purchased a small generator to provide power in case of an outage. The possibility of an outage during winter is the most disturbing, as a severe storm may make it difficult to drive, and the requirement will be to run the boiler 24 hours a day.

Now transporting gasoline 5 gallons at a time could possibly mean frequent annoying trips in the ice and snow. I believe that state laws prevent loading more than 5 gallons at a time. Although one solution is to get a 25 gallon container and fill it up with 5 trips before the storm, but that option seems awkward at best. If you never lose power, you have to empty that container.

It would seem the easiest option would be to fill the two automobiles (29 gallons) and siphon as needed. But I have never tried to defeat the safeguards in a modern gas tank. I don't want to do any damage to the fuel pump.

I found this advice from a blogger. Has anyone ever tried this technique, or a similar one?

Quote: Bloggers advice on how to siphon fuel from a car

You can siphon fuel, on SOME cars. I say some because I've tried with quite a few different ones over the years and some are easy while others can be a real PITA. The first thing is that you have to use a small diameter hose to get to the fuel. I went to Home Depot and bought some clear vinyl tubing that they sell in bulk on those giant spools. I use 2 separate pieces of tubing that are different diameters to siphon with and it works great. I bought 20' of 1/4" ( I.D. ) and 10' of 3/8" ( I.D. ) to do it with. I bought enough of each knowing I'd have x-tra but I wanted to be sure to get it all the way down into the tank. First, take the smaller tubing and gently feed it down into the tank, you may have to spin it around as you fed it in but it should go.

If the tubing stops and will not go any further, remove it & check to see if there is gas on it. If you find that it made it all the way down into the tank great, if not, DO NOT FORCE IT, you might be running into the fuel pump and you could damage it if you force the tubing further. Gently try it again and it should go. Now take the larger diameter tubing and cut off a couple of feet and insert it into the filler neck along side the smaller tubing. Next, get a rag and wrap it around both pieces of tubing right where they enter the filler neck.

Now if you have a compressor, don't worry if you don't as I'll tell you how to do it without one, put the blow gun attachment on and insert the end in the SHORT HOSE (the bigger one). I use a blower attachment that has a tapered rubber end on it and it fits perfect but you can use the ones that have a metal tip and they work too. Now while you hold the rag down, give a few bursts of air and watch the small line to see if Fuel is coming out, it helps to put the tubing into a large gas can rather than directly into the Lawn Mower because it might overfill the Mower and make a mess. If you don't get Gas at first, and you're sure the tubing is far enough down so it's getting to the Gas, try it again with longer bursts of air and make sure that the rag is tight & isn't allowing any air to escape. Once the Gas starts flowing, you can remove the short hose and continue filling your container. If you don't have a Compressor then you can just blow into the large tube but this may take a few more attempts to get the siphon started.



They are still selling these cheap $7 siphons, but I am under the impression that if your car is newer than 30 years old, they will not work.
I think perhaps this purchase was a good example of "false economy". We have never lost power IN WINTER for more than a few hours, so I bought the generator for $200. I am now thinking that it would have been smarter to spend $700-$1000 and get one power by liquid propane.
January 21st, 2013 at 5:06:02 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18631
There was a news item in Vegas once about thieves using a portable pump. It's like the cheap thing, but with a pump. (I can't remember if it was electric, but I think so.)

There's this (gallon per minute)

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11228241&cagpspn=pla
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January 21st, 2013 at 5:13:12 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
First, I do not know the laws of your state. Here in PA people fill 20 gal worth of 5 gal tanks all the time for the local free-gas promotion at the dominant grocery chain. It might be an urban legend.

However, if you do not want to chance it there are two ways to do it. First, just "copy can" your gas purchases. Buy 5 or whatever 5 gal gas cans. This will run you about $75. Then, each week you fill the car fill one can and store it outside the house. After all 5 are filled you have 2 choices:

1. Put fuel stabilizer in them and just let them sit up to 6 months. When you change the clocks, when there is an equinox, or whatever works for you, once a week put 5 gal into your car and rotate in fresh when you fill up.

OR

2. Just rotate in fresh each fill-up.

I prefer method 1. A word of advice, put in the 5 gal when you are running on E before you leave then put in fresh with it. Your car may run a touch funny as refiners change blends all the time for best performance in differing weather. This is why years ago when you got a nice day in winter the cars ran like crap.
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January 21st, 2013 at 5:22:27 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: Pacomartin
Now transporting gasoline 5 gallons at a time could possibly mean frequent annoying trips in the ice and snow. I believe that state laws prevent loading more than 5 gallons at a time. Although one solution is to get a 25 gallon container and fill it up with 5 trips before the storm, but that option seems awkward at best. If you never lose power, you have to empty that container.


Whoa, there. I guess I placed your home in the PA area after your references to your dad's boat in Pittsburgh and knowledge of the area. I gotta ask, what authoritarian hell do you live in where you can't transport gas?

You might be reading a little more into this and/or (more likely) being way too righteous. I can't imagine a scenario where you'd get dinged for having more than 5gal in your vehicle. I've often transported 50gal and up, all in seperate 5gal containers, all piled on top of each other when being the mule for 4wheeler trips. Most I ever got was a "you leaking gas?" when pulled over for speeding. Just point in the back, tell him it's the cans, and nothing more ever came of it.

The law is a non-issue, if it even exists. I'd be much more worried whether I wanted 5 little 5gal cans, or one big honkin' jug.
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January 22nd, 2013 at 3:58:42 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: AZDuffman
First, I do not know the laws of your state. Here in PA people fill 20 gal worth of 5 gal tanks all the time for the local free-gas promotion at the dominant grocery chain. It might be an urban legend.


It appears AZ is correct. The containers cannot be larger than 5 gallons apiece, but you are permitted to put up to 4 of them in a car. I took someone's word about the regulations.

If possible I would still prefer the safety of filling up the automobile tanks and siphoning instead of cycling through containers. Does anyone have experience in bypassing anti-siphon grids?
January 24th, 2013 at 1:47:09 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Multiple containers probably means multiple chances of leaks and spillage.
Are these containers grounded when you fill them or pour from them?
Multiple containers suggest a possibility of fumes in enclosed spaces.

I too would think an automobile's somewhat larger tank would be a safer container as long as siphoning was possible and safer than direct pouring of fumes.

A problem with generators is that there must be protection against current leaking into the power grid and that no matter how critical your particular needs for fuel might be, fuel if available at all will be likely to be rationed without regard to critical needs.

Hurricane Sandy induced quite a few stand by generators to kick in, but some server farms could not keep up the demand when gasoline supplies dwindled and transportation was impossible. Data centers need to be able to shed load to geographically remote servers and residences need to be able to continue on minimal power usage such as sheding refrigerator loads.
January 25th, 2013 at 7:41:55 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Fleastiff
I too would think an automobile's somewhat larger tank would be a safer container as long as siphoning was possible and safer than direct pouring of fumes.
A problem with generators is that there must be protection against current leaking into the power grid and that no matter how critical your particular needs for fuel might be, fuel if available at all will be likely to be rationed without regard to critical needs.


You have to define the problem:
During Hurricane Irene a tree from our property fell on the power line in the last few hours of the storm. Because only a few homes were affected it took almost four days to repair the power line.

The problem of 72 hours of disaster which might include civil insurrection with a few hours notice is infinitely more complex. If you are one of those people who is trying to guard against this problem then you need an entirely different approach. AT THE VERY LEAST you should rely on propane, which can be stored on the property for longer periods of time.

The propane generators were much more expensive for something that might happen once every five years.
January 25th, 2013 at 1:07:24 PM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 89
Posts: 1744
Since the events that would require the generator are somewhat predictable, I don't think you need to keep a large stash of fuel on hand. You should certainly have the capacity to stock up when a problem is imminent, but I don't think you need to keep more than 12 hours of fuel on hand in case of an unexpected event. The rest of the containers can be stored empty until needed.

Now if you live in an area where an unexpected event is the biggest problem (i.e., earthquake), it's a different story.
January 25th, 2013 at 2:44:25 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18631
You could also opt to living in a limited space (one room+kitchen) and maybe even double the amount of time your energy supply will last in case you find you need more gas than you have on hand. (throw down mattress/ sleeping bags, etc.,)

Close doors, and close off vents in other rooms -- etc., You can also buy vent covers.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?