Electric flight/ Hybrid flight:

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March 22nd, 2017 at 9:46:31 PM permalink
Fleastiff
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WRIGHT Electric seeking funding for London to Paris electric flights within a decade based upon sustained rate of battery improvements but acknowledges that if such battery improvements fail to materialize an electric hybrid would have to be used for clean and quiet intercity short haul flights.
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Telegraph
March 25th, 2017 at 7:24:14 AM permalink
Pacomartin
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Quote: Fleastiff
WRIGHT Electric seeking funding for London to Paris electric flights within a decade


Interesting concept. I wonder what the worldwide market is for such short flights and how compatible they are worth current runways.

The article says it handle flights under 300 miles. These short-haul trips make up 30 percent of all flights and is a $26 billion market. But I have to think a lot of these planes fly in from some other airport at a range of over 300 miles.


The Seoul-Jeju flight mentioned is one of the busiest in the world with about 90 flights per day



I would think their target market would only be flights under 300 miles with an intervening body of water. That has to be a tiny percentage of the market of $26 billion market.
March 25th, 2017 at 8:38:18 AM permalink
Fleastiff
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The AIRLINE is concerned with where the airliner came from and whence it will be going.
The AIRPORT is concerned with the airliner that lands and goes somewhere fast: transient parking, terminal, take off, anything but clog the runways and taxiways.
This all involves capital investment and return on equipment and concepts such terminals, huge passenger loads, huge fuel, food and baggage loads and time, time, time. Logistics.

The PASSENGER just wants a nice, comfortable, quick and quiet short-hop flight: go to a close-in local one-runway airport and land at a nearby close-in local one-runway airport in his nearby destination city. No logistics. No fuss, no muss. No checked baggage, no alamand left and do si do to board, no Long March to the Taxi, no sight seeing tourbus from the airport to his hotel. No big production deal. Just a comfortable bus that happens to fly because, God knows, nowdays buses crawl.
March 25th, 2017 at 9:35:10 AM permalink
Pacomartin
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Quote: Fleastiff
The PASSENGER just wants a nice, comfortable, quick and quiet short-hop flight: go to a close-in local one-runway airport and land at a nearby close-in local one-runway airport in his nearby destination city. No logistics. No fuss, no muss. No checked baggage, no alamand left and do si do to board, no Long March to the Taxi, no sight seeing tourbus from the airport to his hotel. No big production deal. Just a comfortable bus that happens to fly because, God knows, nowdays buses crawl.


That is true for point to point flights. But most of the time you have transfers.

Now a possible point to point flight on an electric airplane could be Ontario Airport in Los Angeles and North Las Vegas airport in Vegas area (200 miles). Such a flight could do wonders to relieve congestion in crowded LAX and LAS, and such a plan may work on short runway and have minimal noise.



Such a flight would be a much better option than the Xpress West train which will leave from Victorville which is on the other side of the El Cajon Mountain Pass from Los Angeles.


An added bonus would be if such a plane could fly to PHX and San Jose (325-333 miles).
March 27th, 2017 at 8:24:39 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Electric motors are very simple, efficient and easy enough to maintain.

On the other hand they are limited. I suppose you could compress air and move it back through a turbine to drive the compressor, as current turbofan engines work. Maybe.

But I just don't see electric motors driving supersonic flight.

Also, planes are a large capital investment. It will take decades from the time a major electric design hits the market, until the last jet fuel planes are retired. And if supersonic travel takes off (very BIG IF), jet fuel could hang on for decades more. And when oil runs out, they can move to liquid hydrogen.

BTW, recent developments on lithium-sulfur batteries seem very promising. These have almost double the energy density by weight than lithium ion batteries, and are made of cheaper materials. They'd be a big boost to electric vehicles, not to mention portable electronics. More important, if a cell phone finally can hold a charge for a full day, recharging it in flight won't be as important, allowing for more battery power to the engines.

Oh, southern California is also a good place for solar power. Lots of uninterrupted sunlight, long winter days, etc.
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March 27th, 2017 at 9:37:57 AM permalink
Fleastiff
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Quote: Nareed
But I just don't see electric motors driving supersonic flight.
No, just short hops. Clean quiet suitable for in-city airports. No noise. No outlandish routes to avoid populated areas.
March 27th, 2017 at 9:53:17 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Nareed
Electric motors are very simple, efficient and easy enough to maintain. On the other hand they are limited. I suppose you could compress air and move it back through a turbine to drive the compressor, as current turbofan engines work. Maybe.






I wonder if there is some kind of design possible that is "almost lighter than air" where you don't need the long runways or the 10MWH electric motors to propel the aircraft, but it does not have the true buoyancy of a LTA aircraft.

Consider the Bohai Strait which is 123 km long. It is too short for conventional aircraft, but a ferry takes 8 hours and it is 1400 km to drive around the bay.

A tunnel is estimated to cost $34 billion.

A LTA than aircraft couldn't really carry many people and would probably be too slow.
March 27th, 2017 at 9:55:13 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
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Quote: Nareed
Electric motors are very simple, efficient and easy enough to maintain.

On the other hand they are limited. I suppose you could compress air and move it back through a turbine to drive the compressor, as current turbofan engines work. Maybe.

But I just don't see electric motors driving supersonic flight.

Also, planes are a large capital investment. It will take decades from the time a major electric design hits the market, until the last jet fuel planes are retired. And if supersonic travel takes off (very BIG IF), jet fuel could hang on for decades more. And when oil runs out, they can move to liquid hydrogen.

BTW, recent developments on lithium-sulfur batteries seem very promising. These have almost double the energy density by weight than lithium ion batteries, and are made of cheaper materials. They'd be a big boost to electric vehicles, not to mention portable electronics. More important, if a cell phone finally can hold a charge for a full day, recharging it in flight won't be as important, allowing for more battery power to the engines.

Oh, southern California is also a good place for solar power. Lots of uninterrupted sunlight, long winter days, etc.


In a gas-turbine engine high bypass turbofan engine, the fan is first, The compressor is second, and the turbines are 3rd.

Most of the thrust from a high-bypass engine comes from the fan.

After the compressor, energy is added by burning fuel. That drives the turbines, which extracts energy mostly to drive the fan to generate thrust, and also to drive the compressor to continue the reaction. There is usually one turbine to drive the fan, and one turbine to drive the compressor.

Using an electrically driven compressor would be pointless, as no energy is added to the system later to be extracted by the turbine.

The right thing to drive with the electric motors would be propellers, or ducted fans.
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March 27th, 2017 at 11:44:09 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Dalex64
Using an electrically driven compressor would be pointless, as no energy is added to the system later to be extracted by the turbine.

The right thing to drive with the electric motors would be propellers, or ducted fans.


Electric motors are plain weird when it comes to flight. they're more easily adapted to vehicles that move on wheels (cars, trains, etc)

In any case, I doubt any electric motor will be capable of supersonic flight.

Oh, BTW, Interjet installed electric motors on the wheels of some of its A320s. Why? They use them to taxi. Or so they claim. they still keep the APU on at the gate to power the AC. I do wonder if they save any fuel at all.
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March 27th, 2017 at 11:50:12 AM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Even if the electric assist only resulted in quieter take-off and landing performance, it might allow smaller, regional airports to continue operations. Many are being pressured to close by local residents, but they could provide convenient ways to avoid the time and hassle of road travel and parking at the large international hubs.
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