Stand Your Ground

Quote: rxwine

Now I don't know if any of these teens begged not to be shot,

Highly unlikely, real life is rarely like the
movies, Things happen very fast and then
it's over. The kid wasn't using a single
shot .22 rifle, he had an AR-15 semi assault
gun. Bam bam bam bam bam in 4 seconds
and you have 3 dead teens.

The guy behind me about a quarter mile away
has a 15. He can empty a clip of 25 rounds
in about 5-6 seconds, or so it seems. I've
never timed him. It's quite daunting.

Sounds just like this:

Quote: Evenbob

Highly unlikely, real life is rarely like the
movies,

Well, we may never know. One of the advantages of killing every witness with an opposing viewpoint.

Quote: rxwine

Quote: Ayecarumba

Oklahoma Man defends his parents house with AR-15 style rifle, killing three home invasion burglars that were armed with a knife and brass knuckles.

The right to defend your home, even with deadly force, should never be released to the State. The rifle allowed the homeowner's son to avoid serious bodily injury, and even death, yet many states would take that means of self defense away from law abiding citizens.

Here's my problem with some of the rhetoric from the pro-gunslingers blowing people away under certain conditions..

Let's say you've got an American soldier in a war zone. He's at a post. Three foreign men walk forward and they begin an attack on him with knives or sticks. He manages to get the best of them. He shoots two dead during the initial attack.

One is left. If that man is observed prostate or on his knees and begging for his life and the soldier shoots him dead, is that a chargeable war crime?

Now I don't know if any of these teens begged not to be shot, but I don't find it improbable either.

What's are the standards here?

There is a standard. Soldiers operate with rules of engagement. Even in a war zone American soldiers are expected to follow rules that cover how to deal with prisoners of war. However, as the one who is sitting safe and sound in my American home, I can only trust the soldier, his comrades, and his chain of command to make the right decisions when the bullets are flying. Note that in the face of an enemy using deadly force, the rules would certainly allow a soldier to defend him/herself including neutralizing the attackers by any means available. However, as soon as the one surrenders, a different set of rules regarding the handling of POW's kicks in.

As for the home invasion burglars, they broke through a glass door carrying a knife and brass knuckles. I think that as soon as they trespassed with weapons, they forfeited any "rights" to "a fair fight". Perhaps forensics will reveal defensive wounds on a dead guy? Even then, I would give the homeowner a lot of latitude considering the other evidence.

Quote: rxwine

Well, we may never know. One of the advantages of killing every witness with an opposing viewpoint.

Who really cares.

If the kids had been at work or doing something otherwise legal they would not be dead.

EB has it right, people think it is like the movies. You are acting like it is in the movies. Reality is the kids were probably shot and mortally wounded before a word was exchanged. If any words were exchanged, probably a quick "HEY, YOU!" if that.

If I ever meet the homeowner, I will offer to buy them a drink.

Quote: rxwine

What's are the standards here?

Like my friend Jim Bob says, "If someone breaks into your house, chances are they're up to no good."

Quote: AZDuffman

EB has it right, people think it is like the movies. You are acting like it is in the movies. Reality is the kids were probably shot and mortally wounded before a word was exchanged. If any words were exchanged, probably a quick "HEY, YOU!" if that.

Well people do kill their own kids in the house when the kids are home unexpectedly, so yeah, not a lot of time going by before people start firing obviously.

Quote: rxwine

Well people do kill their own kids in the house when the kids are home unexpectedly, so yeah, not a lot of time going by before people start firing obviously.

Not quite sure the connection here. I'm sure this has happened but can't say I remember reading about it.

Point is two criminals are dead because they broke into a house. I shed not a tear. If you want to take the side of the criminals and not the victim and question it, feel free.

I do like proper investigations.

The stand your ground law seems to allow people to get by on it looks like self-defense, so must be. That's what the Florida case originated. Some old guy was bothered about his case and whether it was really self-defense and he had to wait several months to get cleared. So f***ing what?

There's been people shot for going over to their neighbor's house to complain about loud music. Now you're on someone's property and angry, and the person shoots you dead saying you became violent and tried to attack them when that may never happened.

Then they try to use a castle defense.

Quote: rxwine

Then they try to use a castle defense.

Most stand you own ground statutes apply to the home, not the yard or porch.

Quote: rxwine

I do like proper investigations.

The stand your ground law seems to allow people to get by on it looks like self-defense, so must be. That's what the Florida case originated. Some old guy was bothered about his case and whether it was really self-defense and he had to wait several months to get cleared. So f***ing what?

There's been people shot for going over to their neighbor's house to complain about loud music. Now you're on someone's property and angry, and the person shoots you dead saying you became violent and tried to attack them when that may never happened.

Then they try to use a castle defense.

The Oklahoma case looks justified for 2 of the 3 deaths
The 3rd may be justified but he died outside so more investigation needed

There was a case in Texas where there was a party with loud music and some residents in the street
A clown calls 911 and says he is scared and going to get his gun and go into the street
He kills an elementary school teacher in the street
Claims stand your ground
Found guilty

http://gawker.com/5918397/man-who-used-stand-your-ground-law-to-defend-shooting-neighbor-over-loud-music-found-guilty-of-murder