Stand Your Ground

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March 29th, 2017 at 11:32:06 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 6774
Quote: rxwine

The stand your ground law seems to allow people to get by on it looks like self-defense, so must be. That's what the Florida case originated. Some old guy was bothered about his case and whether it was really self-defense and he had to wait several months to get cleared. So f***ing what?


So what?

So his life is in limbo the entire time. Can you only imagine? All because you were a crime victim?
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
March 29th, 2017 at 12:09:02 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
Posts: 5248
Quote: AZDuffman
So what?

So his life is in limbo the entire time. Can you only imagine? All because you were a crime victim?


Hey, he shot someone. It deserves at least one complete fact finding investigation. This is America, not Russia.
No one has ever proven I am not God.
March 29th, 2017 at 12:18:09 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 6774
Quote: rxwine
Hey, he shot someone. It deserves at least one complete fact finding investigation. This is America, not Russia.


The fact finding should be done in a speedy manner. And it should not be open to political pressure to ruin the victim's life.

If you do not want to get shot, don't attack someone. It lowers the chances when you do not.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
March 29th, 2017 at 12:58:09 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 110
Posts: 11604
Quote: rxwine
Well people do kill their own kids in the house when the kids are home unexpectedly, so yeah,


Three people coming into your home
wearing masks and brandishing
weapons is not your own kids being
home unexpectedly. Get real.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
March 29th, 2017 at 1:11:13 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
Posts: 5248
Quote: AZDuffman

If you do not want to get shot, don't attack someone. It lowers the chances when you do not.


If you don't want to be investigated don't shoot anyone. Frankly, you should be investigated fully even if you claimed that defending yourself with one punch to the other guy killed him, and was all that killed him.

Doesn't matter in fact, whether you used a weapon at all. Deaths should have full investigations. Not, it was too much hassle and made me a nervous wreck is not an excuse.
No one has ever proven I am not God.
March 29th, 2017 at 1:12:45 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 38
Posts: 3213
Quote: AZDuffman
The fact finding should be done in a speedy manner. And it should not be open to political pressure to ruin the victim's life.

If you do not want to get shot, don't attack someone. It lowers the chances when you do not.


Do you consider pop corn thrown at you worthy of standing your ground and killing someone

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/judge-in-reeves-stand-your-ground-case-says-she-expects-to-rule-by-march-10/2315088

https://www.courthousenews.com/attorneys-make-final-arguments-stand-ground-hearing/
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
March 29th, 2017 at 1:32:41 PM permalink
Face
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3157
Quote: Ayecarumba

The right to defend your home, even with deadly force, should never be released to the State. The rifle allowed the homeowner's son to avoid serious bodily injury, and even death, yet many states would take that means of self defense away from law abiding citizens.


Just wanted to quote it because it's so nice hearing it coming from someone other than me. Nothing further to add =)

Quote: Wizard
I think in California the general rule is you can only use equal or lesser force to defend your home.


Seriously? Forget secession, let's force them out. Hurry, before the idiocy spreads.

SYG is a bit of a tough nut to crack because, like most things, there's just so many variables.

Believe it or not, but Face here is mostly OK with weak SYG law. We have that in NY, where you must almost always flee as a matter of course. I suppose I'm behind it because I absolutely see the trouble that can be caused by one or more non-uniformed, partially trained hero(es) busting into an active shooter scenario. Besides the danger to the public, there's also the danger to the hero, as 5-0 has no idea he's a "good guy" when they see him bug eyed with a pistol in hand. And the "freedom component", at least in this case, doesn't phase me because, quite simply, the lack of SYG affects me very little. With or without SYG, I hear some pops in the mall and I'm getting the f#$% out. No law needed. And with or without SYG, if I hear some pops at my kid's school, I'm charging in locked and loaded. In other words, I don't need someone to tell me to leave when it's prudent, and will not be stopped for the same reason. I'll just rely on my training and common sense and with that will dare you to convict me.

Keep in mind that I'm using SYG from an "at large" standpoint, and as such, view Castle Doctrine as a completely different fish. Castle Doctrine, IMO, should be immutable. If a person with unidentified intentions enters your home without your permission, you unload everything you have into his or her face. Period, end of sentence. That's not Gunner Face giving you advice; you know I went through this and I did not shoot, and would certainly encourage anyone with that option to use it. Rather, this is Representative Face stating what should be law. You CANNOT have a duty to flee your own GD house, car, or property you have express permission or stewardship over. Property is one thing; there's no reason to shoot the neighbor cutting 20' off his walk home. But forced entry into the home? You absolutely need the freedom to make sure it's the perp's last forced entry, and after the necessary albeit unfortunate court case, your release from all charges should be expressed via a celebratory parade through town.

@rxwine - In the case of the prostrate perp begging for his life, I reckon that's for the courts and investigators to determine. For sure, any crim acting as such has eliminated the "direct fear of harm" component, and as such, should have legal protection from execution. Though, I must say that if my 5-0 friends have taught me anything, it's that that particular display isn't always what it cracks up to be. Oftentimes (not "many" or "most") it is but another ploy toward the end goal of getting away. "Please oh please" until you relax, then WHAM! Sucker punch or ankle holster.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
March 29th, 2017 at 2:46:00 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 103
Posts: 6774
Quote: rxwine
If you don't want to be investigated don't shoot anyone. Frankly, you should be investigated fully even if you claimed that defending yourself with one punch to the other guy killed him, and was all that killed him.

Doesn't matter in fact, whether you used a weapon at all. Deaths should have full investigations. Not, it was too much hassle and made me a nervous wreck is not an excuse.


So again you are against the victim?
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
March 29th, 2017 at 3:07:31 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
Posts: 5248
Quote: AZDuffman
So again you are against the victim?


Under your thinking, Face could be killed while delivering the mail by a crazy home owner and you would give preference to the home owner just because that lunatic owns the property.
No one has ever proven I am not God.
March 29th, 2017 at 3:26:55 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 328
Posts: 11352
Quote: rxwine
Under your thinking, Face could be killed while delivering the mail by a crazy home owner and you would give preference to the home owner just because that lunatic owns the property.


Them postal workers are minions of the Fed'ral Gummint.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
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