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Trinidad and Tobago
| April 5th, 2017 at 11:14:55 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
You'll have to excuse me if I laughed out loud reading this. Please give me one logical argument that leads to a conclusion that there is no God. Atheists can be good scientists and I would never ridicule a scientific conclusion based on good research, testing, and observations no matter what philosophical ideology or beliefs they held. But please give me a break. Atheism as a philosophy is illogical and a failed idea with no support scientifically or in any other way. It is a blind wish. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 6th, 2017 at 12:48:51 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Why do you always make this so easy? You can provide no proof or even any evidence that a god exists. All you have is the word of other people. You can say you talk to god and he talks back as much as you like. I had an aunt who said she talked to Teddy Roosevelt in seances. She had no evidence either. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 6th, 2017 at 5:17:42 AM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | That may well be ... and can you imagine what an uncomfortable and dangerous place it is to be. So much reason and logic that one loses all common sense and the common touch and awareness of the fraility of human reasoning powers. Someone tries to shoot you off that pinnacle and you are likely to analyze his motivation and reasoning instead of ducking. |
| April 6th, 2017 at 8:16:40 AM permalink | |
| TheCesspit Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 1929 |
The belief in the Christian God is also a blind wish. It is a wish that there is an order and a higher power to provide a moral outline to the world based on absolute morality provided by a super natural being. It's clear from all your comments that you desire there to be a god, so therefore he exists, which is a logical fallacy of the first order. Yet you accuse atheists of being illogical and unscientific. Saying that atheism is a 'failed idea' and 'unscientific' is more proof of this wishful thinking. Atheism still exists, and many scientist subscribe to it. It's not your world view, clearly, but this false moral superiority you have based on your belief in one more God than me is a false pride and arrogance that your religious text warn about. Needless suffering is a good start for a logical conclusion that the ever-loving and ever-powerful God cannot exist as depicted in the Bible. I don't care about his secret plans, and the lessons for life. When people are born into starvation through no fault of their own, and die miserable, cold and lonely due to fate, one must logically conclude that the all powerful, ever loving God does not exist. What sort of being that claims to believe in the sanctity of human life, and the power of human love would leave even one example on earth where they've been abandoned, and never even have the chance to hear the 'good news' message? It's a flawed plan, and if the plan is flawed, then your God can not be the all powerful being so described. That is a logical argument. It may have axiomatic flaws, but attacking axioms is not disproving the logic, that is disagreeing with the first principals, which is not about logic at all. It's also a logical argument I fear you will ignore and reject. It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life |
| April 6th, 2017 at 10:28:38 AM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
Matters of faith and desire are not matters of reason. I was on that road for a long time, trying to reason with the unreasonable. A sound logical argument, without proof, does not necessarily describe reality, even in the absence of disproof. I have held up geocentrism as an example, repeatedly. A sound logical argument, fitting with the observations that were available at the time. Everything fit, until we had evidence that it did not describe reality and could not. You can expect to see a parade of formal and informal logical fallacies. I pointed them out once, using rationalwiki.org to point out what they were and why they were not valid. If you persist on that path, I wish you luck. "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| April 6th, 2017 at 12:22:33 PM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
You nailed it with this whole post. Good job. Spend time with a devout Xtion and you'll soon realize it's not god that exists, it's their hope and wish that he exists, because that's what they've been told all their lives. They hope he's there, they hope he hears them, they hope it's all true. The more they tell you it is, the more they give away their inner doubt. I never have to tell people my dog loves me and is devoted to me, it's obvious. Nothing about god is obvious, that's why we have to constantly hear what flies in the face of reason and logic. That god is real, that he loves us, that he has a plan. What the faithful really mean is they have a plan for the god they made up, not the other way around. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 6th, 2017 at 2:38:26 PM permalink | |
| Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Lens. Let me paraphrase that part: "Religious as a philosophy is illogical and a failed idea with no support scientifically or in any other way. It is a blind wish." If that doesn't work, let's try: "Philately as a philosophy is illogical and a failed idea with no support scientifically or in any other way. It is a blind wish." Still no? Then: "Numismatics as a philosophy is illogical and a failed idea with no support scientifically or in any other way. It is a blind wish." Over 2,000 years ago Aristotle taught us A is A and it can't be non-A. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
| April 6th, 2017 at 10:01:43 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
So let me get this straight. I ask you for a logical argument that supports a reasonable conclusion that there is no God and you simply point out your opinion that there is no evidence you accept for God's existence. Putting aside that there is evidence and there is a logical argument based on causality that leads us to believe in God, you still haven't shown anything. As someone pointed out you can't prove a negative, but I'm just asking for a reason or some logic that would lead anyone to reasonable conclude that there is no God. You can't do it. You resort to ridiculing other people's experience and my own and conclude that it must be false for no other reason than you want it to be. You have nothing and you dare to say atheism is the pinicale of logic? I'm still laughing at that statement. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 6th, 2017 at 10:14:48 PM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Do you not see order in creation? Do you not perceive a higher power that created life? Do you deny that there are universal moral laws that are written in our hearts that try as we can to silence or change them we cannot? Yes I desire there to be a God, and I think you do too deep down. However desiring it does not make it so. It is so because science, logic, and morality shows there to be one.
There is nothing prideful about pointing out truth. In fact it is often a humbling and unwelcome task. Atheism is clearly wrong nd many people do hold it, not because it is correct but because it is easy and bad philosophy.
This is not logical, but I grant you it is the most powerful emotional argument against a conception of God as loving and all-powerful. What you don't seem to grasp is that if needless suffering of the innocent, like that which Christ suffered from bothers you the answer is not found in abandoning God, as tempting as that may be. You are then just left with useless and meaningless existence. By illogically rejecting God and the theological arguments concering suffering you are left with nothing but despair.
You think the plan is flawed with your limited understanding. Strictly speaking it is not logically to conclude that God is not all powerful. In fact He is so powerful that He can bring good out of suffering.
Please believe me that if it was logical I would never ignore or reject it. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 7th, 2017 at 1:05:03 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
I have nothing because there is no evidence or proof to be had. Your 'logical argument based on causality' holds no water. If it did we would all be laying face down on the floor asking gods forgiveness 12 hours a day. You flick away the argument that you can't prove a negative like it's a pesky bee flying around your head. It's a very important part of this conversation. You make a statement, we say prove it, and you yell back "not until you prove I'm wrong!" It doesn't work that way, as Randi explained in the video. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |