Easter: Message of Jesus?

For more than ten years, the Jesus Seminar
researched and debated the life and death
of the historical Jesus. They concluded that
the Jesus of history is very different from
the icon of traditional Christianity: Jesus did
not walk on water, feed the multitudes, change
water into wine, or raise Lazarus from the dead.

He was executed as a public nuisance, not for
claiming to be the son of God. And in the view
of the Seminar, he did not rise bodily from the dead;
the resurrection is based instead on visionary
experiences of some of his followers. In those
days visions were often recorded as events
that really happened, especially if two people
had similar visions. This version of what happened
makes perfect sense, the version commonly believed
makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote: Evenbob

I'm talking about the core message of Jesus,
which you just purposely avoided. Tell us
what the message of Jesus was when he
preached, what was at it's core, why did he
he say he was here. What was his job while
he traveled around, what was the main
message he was giving the people he
talked to.

I'm still investigating this and I can find the
message of Paul and Matthew and Luke,
but no message of Jesus. In the 3 years of
his ministry, what was his agenda, what was
his purpose, what was he telling people.
I can't find anybody willing to say what the
core message was in those 3 years.

The core message of Jesus is to love one another as you love yourself (Golden Rule: do unto others...). And to love the least of mankind as you love Him (as you love the least of these, love Me). Love translates as giving each human respect, kindness, and consideration, including but not limited to sustainance, shelter, and aid as needed (various parables and miracles).

Supporting and related messages to this include to not judge your fellow man (let he who is without sin cast the first stone), to share knowledge and skills to mutual benefit(give a man a fish...teach a man to fish) to worship God together with a loving heart, not mistaking material riches for spiritual wealth.(render unto Caesar...render unto God), and to forgive without reservation (turn the other cheek; go then, and sin no more).

Pick it apart as you like. That's the essence of the teachings. Follow them, don't follow them, you have free will. I myself follow them as closely as I can while remaining aware of my flaws and failures.

I sometimes wish I believed in Jesus as Savior rather than just wise teacher. It would be good to be forgiven my imperfections.

Quote: Evenbob

For more than ten years, the Jesus Seminar
researched and debated the life and death
of the historical Jesus. They concluded that
the Jesus of history is very different from
the icon of traditional Christianity: Jesus did
not walk on water, feed the multitudes, change
water into wine, or raise Lazarus from the dead.

He was executed as a public nuisance, not for
claiming to be the son of God. And in the view
of the Seminar, he did not rise bodily from the dead;
the resurrection is based instead on visionary
experiences of some of his followers. In those
days visions were often recorded as events
that really happened, especially if two people
had similar visions. This version of what happened
makes perfect sense, the version commonly believed
makes no sense whatsoever.

He was executed for being a threat to TPTB of that time. He was an insurrectionist to the Pharisees, who ruled the Jewish underclass, and the Romans executed him to keep their power structure happy, in exchange for peace from that populace.

His message, inverted to be seen from TPTB side, would allow the people to stop paying taxes and tithes, stop following the edicts of the priests, and break away as a sect opposing the order and authority of the locals.

They tried to mock and discredit him: didn't work. They scourged him and threatened the people who followed him: didn't work. He collected people from the underclass, who had failed to have any position or authority, but they had strength of numbers, and they were the common laborers of their day, with nothing to lose by believing in him. So they killed him, and in so doing made a martyr of him. They knew they would venerate him with his followers by doing that, but at least he would be dead, and that would eventually dilute his influence.

But even that didn't work, because he rose from the grave and walked the earth again for some period (forty days and forty nights means nobody really knows how long) witnessed by many, still bearing the scars of his crucifixion.

If he had been about power of the earthly kind, he would have led the revolution. But he wasn't about that. He offered a different kind of leadership, for a different reward. And those that believe in him earn that reward in the next life. And since pure Christianity is not dependent on riches, power, or class, he remains a symbol of hope and peace for everyone, not just the privileged.

Doesn't stop those who.would use him for their own personal enrichment in this life, or those stupid enough to listen to them, unfortunately.

Quote: beachbumbabs

But even that didn't work, because he rose from the grave and walked the earth again .

Or so the myth says. Like all myths, it
never happened, it's just a story to
bolster another story. How about where
it says the tombs of Jewish saints flew
open and the dead saints came alive
when Jesus died, and went into the
towns and talked to people. You must
believe that ridiculous myth if you bought
the first one.

..and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53

So these dead musty old saints, dozens or
hundreds of them, roamed around and it's
not recorded anywhere but here, in two vague
sentences. Would have been a pretty big deal,
would be like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln,
FDR, Kennedy all came back and walked and
talked to people and were recognized for
who they were.

It wasn't written about because it's a myth, just
not as popular as the Jesus rebirth myth. The
saints myth had no legs to carry it any further.

Quote: beachbumbabs

The core message of Jesus is to love one another as you love yourself (Golden Rule: do unto others...).

That's not much of a message. It's an old
one and hardly an invention of Jesus. The
so called golden rule showed up in Egypt,
Greece, and India hundreds and thoudands
of years before Jesus. Him preaching it
from town to town would have been a
yawner, he would have had zero followers.

No, Jesus main message was, 'The End
Is Near'. Yup, he was that guy, an 'end is
near guy'. Better wise up, better get your
affairs in order, god is coming and he ain't
happy. This was his message, this is why he
got followers. His type still get followers to
this day, the crackpots. Look at David Koresh.
People love to think they're in the final days,
makes them feel special. Even 2000 years ago.

The one point they all agreed on, Jesus, the
apostles, Peter and Paul, they were living in
the end times. This was it, any day now. That
was the ministry of Jesus, that was his show,
that was his pulpit, that's how he sucked
people into following him. The rest was embellished
and polished long after the died.

Quote: Evenbob

That's not much of a message. It's an old
one and hardly an invention of Jesus. The
so called golden rule showed up in Egypt,
Greece, and India hundreds and thoudands
of years before Jesus. Him preaching it
from town to town would have been a
yawner, he would have had zero followers.

No, Jesus main message was, 'The End
Is Near'. Yup, he was that guy, an 'end is
near guy'. Better wise up, better get your
affairs in order, god is coming and he ain't
happy. This was his message, this is why he
got followers. His type still get followers to
this day, the crackpots. Look at David Koresh.
People love to think they're in the final days,
makes them feel special. Even 2000 years ago.

The one point they all agreed on, Jesus, the
apostles, Peter and Paul, they were living in
the end times. This was it, any day now. That
was the ministry of Jesus, that was his show,
that was his pulpit, that's how he sucked
people into following him. The rest was embellished
and polished long after the died.

Fuff. Why would anyone listen to you about what Jesus said? You're just making stuff up. I'm basing what I said on what the Bible says Jesus said, paraphrasing the specific points in parentheses.

I also don't think that Jesus' message had to be new or original, or that any teacher would have to provide information never heard before to be effective. I've no idea who might have said things before Jesus, and which those might be, but learning is usually based on repetition and/or reframing known ideas in new ways, so if it was repetitive, that does not detract from the information or advice.

There are lots of stories in the bible that are uncorroborated outside of the bible, and lots of stories in the bible that people don't believe now to be the literal truth.

How do you decide which is which?

Quote: Dalex64

There are lots of stories in the bible that are uncorroborated outside of the bible, and lots of stories in the bible that people don't believe now to be the literal truth.

How do you decide which is which?

A good question. It is a combination of a lot of things. Obviously historical research is important. You also need to look at the genre and purpose of the writing, a study of the grammar of the original languages can reveal a lot. Just as important is the Tradition of believers, the Early Church Fathers and the practice of the early Church. This can tell us a lot about what was literally true or hyperbole or parables or comments meant to connect the NT events to OT prophecies in a literally or figurative sense.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Fuff. Why would anyone listen to you about what Jesus said? You're just making stuff up.

Huh? I'm not making up anything. Jesus
was the 'end of days guy', that's what he
preached. Get your house in order because
god is coming to judge you.

Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel." (Mark 1:14-15)

That was the main message of Jesus and
it's why he had followers. Doom and gloom
prophets always catch the ear of the gullible.
People love to feel they live in important times.

Bob, calling Jesus a doom and gloom prophet continues to reaffirm Babs apt observation. You also should look into what Jesus means when He talks about the Kingdom of God. Hint: it doesn't mean the end of the world.