The Holy Trinity

May 30th, 2018 at 12:20:56 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Dalex64
Seriously. The mantra for worshipping god should not be "revel in your ignorance"


Did you get that from somewhere, is that
why the quotes around it? What an absolute
perfect way to describe god believers. You
really connected on that one. Come one,
come all, dumb yourself down and believe
in something we can't prove exists, but we
want you to believe just because we say so.

That's the message of every god religion.
And they get so angry and miffed when
you refuse. After all, they say, billions of
people can't be wrong. That's what all
the hundreds of Jim Jones followers
were saying to themselves as they sipped
the Kool Aid and looked around. This
must be right, they said, all these people
couldn't be wrong, could they?
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 30th, 2018 at 7:34:46 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Dalex64
Seriously. The mantra for worshipping god should not be "revel in your ignorance"


Wasn't it Plato who said he was wise because he knew he did not know. I find it is interesting that people are so scared of mystery and the unknown. This is life. There is so much mystery and unknown, we don't know what will happen the next second, much less year. We live in a constant state of dependence on faith and trust without proof. Yet, when belief in God comes about crazy atheists shout about mathematical proof and how it doesn't make sense so that can't believe in God. The really illogical ones will even claim there is no God. Yet then they go about their day eating food they have no proof is safe, trusting in people who they have no proof are trustworthy, and enjoying things like the weather or their nervous system without any complete understanding how it works. Maybe a mantra for atheists would be, "revel in your idiocy".
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 30th, 2018 at 8:22:05 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Everything in the second half of your message CAN BE PROVEN by people with sufficient effort. God can not.

On one hand you have people trusting that someone else has done the work, but if you really wanted to, you could do it yourself now and recreate the work, recreate the proof.

On the other hand you have the bible.

The apostles performed miracles, talked directly to god and angels, called down holy wrath, etc. https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1197-miracles-in-the-book-of-acts

None of this can be reproduced today.

Having the wisdom to know when you do not know something is very different than using ignorance as a justification for belief.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
May 30th, 2018 at 9:06:28 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Who is using ignorance as a justification for belief?

The reason why we trust others is our experiences that bring us to having a reasonable and certain faith. Whether we actually can do something ourselves or prove it ourselvea with lots of work is missing the point. You don't trust the food because you can make it yourself at home or you can test it in a laboratory. You have faith because you have had countless positive experiences at this or that restaurant, because the food looks good, and the restaurant is clean, etc.

So lets not pretend that in reality there is any big difference between why people live in faith in their daily lives and why people believe in a God whose love and presence they have had countless experiences of.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 30th, 2018 at 9:41:20 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
I won't believe in something that you need a "leap of faith" to believe.

All of that other stuff you talk about which people take on faith does not require a leap of faith. Choosing not to know how things work is a choice you can make, but with things which require a leap of faith, you can not choose to know how it works.

Taking a leap of faith is an example of using ignorance as a justification for belief. You don't know / can't know / won't know something (ignorance), are informed that you need to accept something on faith (ignorance) and then use that faith to justify your belief (because I have faith in it)

Let's not pretend that there is no difference between taking faith in something that can be proven and taking faith in something that can not.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
May 30th, 2018 at 10:05:20 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: FrGamble
Maybe a mantra for atheists would be, "revel in your idiocy".


That, I think, was beneath you, Padre.

I'd like you to take a look at this list of famous atheists in science and technology. Would you call them idiots?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
May 30th, 2018 at 11:07:20 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
No I definitely would not, point well taken. What is my penance?

I also don't think any of them would say worshiping God was "reveling in ignorance". Do you think you or anyone would say that the list of some of the smartest people ever who believed in God were ignorant?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 30th, 2018 at 11:40:06 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Dalex64
using ignorance as a justification for belief.


You've coined a phrase that
really speaks to me. 'Justified
ignorance' covers so much of
what Xtions insist if the 'truth'.
They can't prove even the smallest
bit of any of it; virgin birth, water
walking, raising the dead, instant
healing, creating food out of thin
air, etc. Their lack of knowledge
(ignorance) on how any of these
events occurred is appalling, yet
their justifications for why they
believe they happened fills books.

It's almost like, the wilder and more
bizarre the story is, the more they
try and show how justified they
are in believing it. And if you don't
believe it and want proof, you're
called 'idiots', as FrG just said about
'idiot atheists'. In the Xtions reality,
the people who need proof and
facts are stupid ones.

Now imagine the world is run by the
'justified ignorance' people for hundreds
of years. What you end up with is
forced conversions, Inquisitions, and
burning women to death for being witches.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 30th, 2018 at 11:46:15 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: FrGamble
No I definitely would not, point well taken. What is my penance?


How about say three nice things about EvenBob.

Quote:
I also don't think any of them would say worshiping God was "reveling in ignorance". Do you think you or anyone would say that the list of some of the smartest people ever who believed in God were ignorant?


Neither do I and I personally would not say that. I can only defend or apologize for what I say.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
May 30th, 2018 at 12:03:35 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Wizard
How about say three nice things about EvenBob.


You would be a good priest. The penance not only fits the sin but helps me in overcoming it.

1. Evenbob really loves his dogs and in general likes animals. This also means he shows great care for his dogs.
2. Evenbob is a big contibutor to this forum and probably others and adds to the community with the variety of his posts. This contributes to discussion and doesn't let things get boring. He also doesn't seem to let others mean comments about him (including to my shame my own) get to him. He lets it roll off his back and I believe is confident enough to not let mean people drive him away from something he likes and gets value from, namely this forum.
3. Bob seems like an entrepreneur, something I really respect. He has worked many jobs and worked hard in them, that also is worthy of respect.


Quote:
either do I and I personally would not say that. I can only defend or apologize for what I say.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (