The Holy Trinity

May 31st, 2018 at 9:00:16 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote:
how or why do people determine what their religious views are. It is more of an art than a science.


That's because most god people refuse
to base it on science. The vast majority
of god people believe because they
were told to believe, and that's that.
Only a tiny fraction arrived there by
pursuit and investigation.

They believe in god because they were
raised to, because their family and
friends do, because it's a habit they were
taught. In my entire life I have not met
one person who arrived at god by seeking
the god. Oh, they are out there, wrong as
they are, but they are scarce.

But there are tons (TONS) of former god
people who woke up and are now atheists.
They slowly realized there was no evidence
for a god, so they carefully weaned away
from their religions. Do it, ask people why
they believe in god. You might find one
in your lifetime that doesn't give the
religion answer. None of them arrived their
thru science and logic.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 31st, 2018 at 9:11:20 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Anyone who believes and practices their faith in a real way as an adult does not do so just because that is the way they were brought up or told to believe. That is childish to do and childish to think that is what other adults do. Why do you insist on subtly calling everyone stupid who believes in God? It is those who go no further in their faith than what they learned as kids that wake up atheists. It is those who never developed a prayer life or studied the faith as an adult that leave it. You have met many people in your life you practice their faith as adults who chose on their own to do so based on science, logic, experiences, prayer, upbringing, etc. You know me and I have pursued God through science and logic and left atheism because there is no logic, science, or evidence to support it. I know you want to tell yourself that the TONS of people who believe in God are doing so just because that is the way they were taught as kids, but that is not true. The many atheists you know and that I know became atheists not through any search through science or logic but because they never took their faith seriously and drifted away. They find it easier to be an atheist, actually really just agnostic but you don't seem to know the difference. As usual you are wrong and hoisting up your personal opinion and what you want to believe as true, it is not.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
May 31st, 2018 at 9:26:38 PM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
FrGamble - did you miss my earlier question:

Quote:
I have a question -- how do you reconcile the fact that a lot of the Bible is paraphrased from stories of other "religions" and societies, including origin stories, a great flood, virgin birth, etc.
May 31st, 2018 at 11:57:50 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: FrGamble
Anyone who believes and practices their faith in a real way as an adult does not do so just because that is the way they were brought up or told to believe. That is childish to do and childish to think that is what other adults do.



I thought it was pretty obvious if you grow up in a Mormon community, or Amish, or Jewish, there is a high probability you follow the community faith if it predominates. Same with Hindu. Same with Buddhist.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
June 1st, 2018 at 1:00:50 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Anyone who believes and practices their faith in a real way as an adult does not do so just because that is the way they were brought up or told to believe. .


'In a real way'? What kind of condescending crap
is that? They believe in god, they got it from
childhood, they didn't reach the conclusion
thru investigation and decision as an adult.
Ask them, I have. Whether they pass your
silly 'faith practice' guidelines or not has
nothing to do with anything.

You want to always nitpik everything to death,
to arrive at your god popping from behind a
bush by parsing words and by being tricky and
slippery. You can't produce him any other way
because he doesn't exist. It obviously drives
you nuts that you believe something you can't
prove. The fact that you believing isn't enough
for you, that you'll never be happy until you
drag others into the delusion with you, speaks
volumes about your Church.

For myself, I could not care less that you're Xtion,
good for you, I hope your and your secret friend
Jesus are blissfully happy together. But for some
reason you cannot stand that I and others are
atheists, it galls you, it sticks in your craw. Because
as long as there are atheists, you might be wrong.
There will always be that nagging felling that you've
been hoodwinked, that you're just another Jim
Jones follower waiting in line for his Kool Aid.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 1st, 2018 at 4:14:03 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
I am positing that the two kinds of faith are not as separate as you present them. The first kind of faith, the one you have no choice in, has as its object objective truth. It claims that this is true no matter what. The second kind of faith is more of your personal choice or preference, what appeals to you as subjective truth.

I don't know what your religious beliefs are but if you are convinced that Catholicism is true then you have no choice but to believe in it and claim that Islam is incorrect. How you come to this faith is not just through science and history, though that has a part to play for sure. You also come to religious faith that claims to be objectively true by your own personal history, upbringing, research, experiences, prayer life, morality, and even things like aesthetics.


That is what I have been saying. You are making a PERSONAL CHOICE in what you want to believe in.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
June 1st, 2018 at 5:19:34 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Dalex64
That is what I have been saying. You are making a PERSONAL CHOICE in what you want to believe in.


Isn't every choice we make personal in some way? Regardless, Yes we make a personal choice in regards to religion but it claims to be universally true. That is what I'm trying to get across is that the reason people have so much trouble with religious faith is that it is personal and at the same time claims to be true for everyone. For someone who thinks there are only two kinds of faith, one universal and another personal, it doesn't fit.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
June 1st, 2018 at 6:14:13 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: rxwine
I thought it was pretty obvious if you grow up in a Mormon community, or Amish, or Jewish, there is a high probability you follow the community faith if it predominates. Same with Hindu. Same with Buddhist.


I would agree that this is pretty obvious.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
June 1st, 2018 at 6:21:05 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
'In a real way'? What kind of condescending crap
is that? They believe in god, they got it from
childhood, they didn't reach the conclusion
thru investigation and decision as an adult.


Would you call holding unto to childish teachings being a real adult? I'm not being condescending, you are. You think that adults who practice their faith are doing it just because as a little kid they were told to. Now as a 40 year adult they unquestioning obey like a zombie. Look, I get it that you need to believe that to fit your narrative that no one with a brain would believe in God, but it is just not true and it is condescending crap.


Quote:
You want to always nitpik everything to death,


Forgive me if I want to challenge you to think and be consistent and fair with your ideas.

Quote:
It obviously drives
you nuts that you believe something you can't
prove.


No more so than it does you.


Quote:
There will always be that nagging felling that you've
been hoodwinked, that you're just another Jim
Jones follower waiting in line for his Kool Aid.


I think you are projecting here.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
June 1st, 2018 at 6:31:48 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: aceofspades
FrGamble - did you miss my earlier question:


As Vatican II states there are sparks of truth all around us in various religions, stories, myths, etc. It is not surprising that humanity shares similar stories that speak truth to them and are expressed in various ways in different cultures. Some of it is preparation for the truth of the Bible being revealed. There are significant differences of course in the origin story, great flood, virgin birth as presented in the Bible with anything that came before. It may be that these earlier stories are like shadows of the truth to be revealed in the Old Testament and in Christ.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (