The Holy Trinity

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April 22nd, 2017 at 10:01:41 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 105
Posts: 10398
Quote: FrGamble
Why does evolution of morality make it not the amazing difference maker in humanity


How is it more important than learning
how to preserve food or grow crops
or make tools. Morality is just another
facet of survival if we hope to live
in societies and get along. Just something
else religion wants to take credit for
when it's obvious no credit is deserved.

]
Quote:
Secondly the whole Bible is basically one anti slavery book. From the Exodus to Paul`s letter to Philemon.


That's why Jefferson Davis used the Bible
to defend slavery during the Civil War,
because it was NOT anti slavery.

There is no more real or important questions than the ones I gave.

Your questions are right up there with:
What's my favorite color? Will I be happy
in an inter racial marriage? Should I have
3 kids or 4? Should I quit my job and find
a better one? What should my major be
in college? My aunt died, where is she
now? Your questions and these questions
don't have answers that aren't opinions.
There is no universal right answer to
any of them.

I say there is no god, but I can't prove it.
Will I live forever, I sincerely doubt it given
that nobody does. Does my life have
meaning? Who knows, it changes all the
time. What is love? I love my dog, I love
Dijon mustard, I love Netflix, I love hash
browns, on and on. What is beauty? Gee,
nobody has an opinion on that, it's a real
stumper.

See?
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 22nd, 2017 at 10:37:11 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4927
Quote: Evenbob
How is it more important than learning
how to preserve food or grow crops
or make tools. Morality is just another
facet of survival


Just ask yourself which would you rather take away. Would you like to live in a society that grows crops and is immoral or a society that hunts and gathers but is moral? What you don't seem to be getting is that it is precisely our morality that separates us and makes us so amazing. Give monkeys opposoble thumbs and they might be able to grow crops but if you were not the strongest you would be lucky to get any of those crops or it could just be stolen from you.


Quote:
That's why Jefferson Davis used the Bible
to defend slavery during the Civil War,
because it was NOT anti slavery.


You show all the time how the Bible can be misread, the fact is that the anti-slavery movement was a Christian movement based on the Bible.

Quote:
There is no more real or important questions than the ones I gave.


Your questions are right up there with:
What's my favorite color? Will I be happy
in an inter racial marriage? Should I have
3 kids or 4? Should I quit my job and find
a better one? What should my major be
in college? My aunt died, where is she
now?
See?


I do see that none of the questions I mentioned are the ones you mentioned above. They are however questions that science can't answer or even ask so I am glad that you have at least changed your mind about that.
April 22nd, 2017 at 11:55:03 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 664
Posts: 7605
Quote: Evenbob
"The accession of Constantine was a turning point for early Christianity. After his victory, Constantine took over the role of patron of the Christian faith. He supported the Church financially, had an extraordinary number of basilicas built, granted privileges (e.g., exemption from certain taxes) to clergy, promoted Christians to high-ranking offices, returned property confiscated during the Great Persecution of Diocletian, and endowed the church with land and other wealth. Between 324 and 330, Constantine built a new imperial capital at Byzantium on the Bosporos, which would be named Constantinople for him. Unlike "old" Rome, the city began to employ overtly Christian architecture, contained churches within the city walls and had no pre-existing temples from other religions."


Constantine the Great made Christianity his sole religion, from his early 50's until his death at 65. But while he was in his 30's his father and Diocletian had a terrible persecution of the Christians.

Christianity survived the mass persecution, so you can't give Constantine all the credit with saving the religion.
April 24th, 2017 at 6:58:09 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 306
Posts: 10278
Well, of course: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-evidence-for-the-history-of-jesus/
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
April 24th, 2017 at 7:03:34 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 306
Posts: 10278
Quote: Pacomartin
Christianity survived the mass persecution, so you can't give Constantine all the credit with saving the religion.


The rest of the credit goes to Theodosius I. He defeated the last major pagan power block inside the Roman Empire at the Battle of the Frigidus River.

You could also give some credit to the earlier Caliphates that conquered Persia, and installed Islam as a religion in the Sassanid Empire. Otherwise a major power would have had the chance to carry on a pagan tradition for centuries.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
April 24th, 2017 at 11:15:06 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 105
Posts: 10398
Quote: Pacomartin
Christianity survived the mass persecution


They must not have been trying very
hard. We got rid of millions of buffalo
in just a few years with some concentrated
effort. We give too much credit to how
things were done millennia ago. What
they call 'mass persecution' now was
obviously hit or miss lazy persecution then.
If it was concentrated and intense, there
would be no Christians now. They survived,
so of course their story will blow all the
details out of proportion. Like the Jews
leaving Egypt in the exodus, experts are
now saying most of it didn't even happen.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 24th, 2017 at 12:44:39 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4927
Wow, you sound like a Holocaust denier. "It must not have been so bad or intense after all Jews have survived." Is there is nothing you wont stoop to in order to hold onto to your mistaken views?!?
April 24th, 2017 at 2:03:08 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 105
Posts: 10398
Quote: FrGamble
Wow, you sound like a Holocaust denier. "It must not have been so bad or intense after all Jews have survived."


I'm not in the least a Holocaust denier,
don't be absurd. My point is well taken,
though. If it had been the goal to wipe
out all Christians, and they had taken it
on with gusto and determination, they
would have have come much closer to
their goal.

"Anti-Christian policies in the Roman Empire occurred intermittently over a period of over two centuries.. (it) was carried out by the state and also by local authorities on a sporadic, ad hoc basis, often at the whims of local communities. Starting in 250, empire-wide persecution took place.. The edict was in force for eighteen months, during which time some Christians were killed while others apostatised to escape execution." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_policies_in_the_Roman_Empire

The key words here being intermittent, sporadic,
ad hoc, and whim of a community. Some were
killed, others weren't. This hardly sounds like
the pedal to metal 'wipe out every Christian'
wave of genocide that we are led to believe happened.

"For most of the first three hundred years of Christian history, Christians were able to live in peace, practice their professions, and rise to positions of responsibility. Only for approximately ten out of the first three hundred years of the church's history were Christians executed due to orders from a Roman emperor." http://www.religionfacts.com/persecution-early-church
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
April 24th, 2017 at 2:46:04 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4927
From your second link I like this quote of Tertullian:
'The second-century theologian Tertullian had converted to Christianity based in part on his wonder at Christians' faithfulness in the face of martyrdom and it clearly had a similar effect on others as well. It was Tertullian who famously declared, "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church." Indeed, persecution seemed to have a dramatic effect on Christianity's numbers, but not in the direction intended by the persecutors."

I think a full reading of both articles show that Christians were persecuted in varying degrees of intensity throughout their early years. Yet in the midst of all this persecution the faith continued to grow until it eventually toppled the pagan empire that for so long had fought against it.

What you don't seem to get is that the more gusto as you call it the evil men use to persecute the Church the more it grows. From the crucifixion to today this bears out. There have been more recent Christians martyrs in the last century than at any other time outside of the first three centuries. Try as you like to destroy the Church, Christ has already promised the "gates of hell will not prevail against it." From both exterior and interior threats and destruction the Church continues to thrive in ways no one can explain besides turning to its supernatural foundation.
April 24th, 2017 at 3:21:22 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 105
Posts: 10398
Quote: FrGamble
I think a full reading of both articles show that Christians were persecuted in varying degrees of intensity


To my original point, most of the time it
was peaceful, nothing was going on at all.
The picture Christians love to paint is, they
were hunted and on the run for hundreds
of years. A total myth, like most of the
religion.

Quote:
From both exterior and interior threats and destruction the Church continues to thrive in ways no one can explain .


Huh? It survived because it was mostly
left alone. Nobody was actively doing
anything against it, except sporadically.
Nobody perceived it as a real threat to
anything, so nobody cared for long
stretches of time. Nothing supernatural
or mystical about it. Those were totally
different times. People lived in isolation,
there was no mass media, no newspapers,
no communication except slow word of
mouth. People were much more concerned
with their short daily lives and where their
next meal was coming from, than about
some pipsqueak religion that was here and
there.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
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