How does a god know he/she is all there is?

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May 5th, 2017 at 8:09:25 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 116
Posts: 4759
So...how would even a God know that he is all there is?

Each being of whatever intelligence knows what it knows, but how would it know that there isn't more? Same with God.

Create as many powerful being scenarios as you wish. And how do you guarantee any one of them knows all that is and can be?

This is more a thought problem than a particular religious one. I'm not sure if it's a paradox but it's something.

Pretend you're a being that can realize all the current Universe as it is. How do you guarantee you are seeing all there is? You can only observe what you can observe.

God has the same problem. Even as the creator of all that is known, it is no guarantee there is not something outside his observation. If something is outside your observation you cannot know it.
No one has ever proven I am not God.
May 5th, 2017 at 10:08:45 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 10725
Quote: rxwine
God has the same problem. Even as the creator of all that is known, it is no guarantee there is not something outside his observation.


It's a good question that all god believers
have an answer for. Their god knows
everything there is to know. Period, next
question. It's their answer for every god
question, just have faith god has it covered.
Feel better now?
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 6th, 2017 at 2:01:58 AM permalink
Aussie
Member since: May 10, 2016
Threads: 2
Posts: 219
And which is the one true God? They all claim to be the highest power, created the earth etc etc but they can't all be right. As the Dire Straits song goes - "two men think they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong".
May 6th, 2017 at 5:33:22 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 1713
Quote: Aussie
And which is the one true God? They all claim to be the highest power, created the earth etc etc but they can't all be right. As the Dire Straits song goes - "two men think they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong".


At least one of them must be wrong.

Well, as no one can link or demonstrate that the god of their choice is the cause of all existence, and only the cause-of-all can be all-powerful,
then no one can show that the god of their choice is all powerful.

Any gods that came later would not need to be all powerful to create the earth or our solar system or our galaxy. So unless they can show that their god of choice was the first, they can't claim that their god of choice must be all-powerful.

As for all-knowing, knowledge can be transferred, so a god could become all-knowing, but since the knowledge is transferred I guess they could never know if they were given everything.

So in short, no. If you can't demonstrate that a god is all (as in infinitely) powerful, you can't demonstrate that a god is all-knowing.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
May 7th, 2017 at 2:23:52 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 48
Posts: 4324
Ireland has the answer to this question: They are apparently going to charge famed commentator Stephen Fry with the crime of blasphemy: Why should I respect a mean spirited stupid god who creates a world with so much pain and injustice. I believe the show aired in Ireland but was not filmed there.
May 7th, 2017 at 2:39:49 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 10725
Quote: Fleastiff
Ireland has the answer to this question: They are apparently going to charge famed commentator Stephen Fry with the crime of blasphemy: Why should I respect a mean spirited stupid god who creates a world with so much pain and injustice.


Yet, god loves us so. It flies in the face
of common sense. If god loved his
people, this would truly be a different
world if god existed. Obviously, he does
not and cannot.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 7th, 2017 at 10:59:56 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4980
It might be helpful to this discussion to think about St. Anselm's simple definition of who God is:

"God is that of which nothing greater can be thought."
May 7th, 2017 at 11:11:37 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 116
Posts: 4759
Quote: FrGamble
It might be helpful to this discussion to think about St. Anselm's simple definition of who God is:

"God is that of which nothing greater can be thought."


Well, do you propose that even your God can be sure he is all there is? Again, how would he know for sure?

It's the same problem we all have, but I don't see why it's limited to just our level.

You are free to use logic to explain.
No one has ever proven I am not God.
May 7th, 2017 at 11:27:05 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 12
Posts: 1788
Quote: Evenbob
Yet, god loves us so. It flies in the face
of common sense. If god loved his
people, this would truly be a different
world if god existed. Obviously, he does
not and cannot.
It would help a great deal with church membership if God would show up a little more often than every few millenia. I think the faithful deserve some kind of bonus for all they have done also, like say God show up for one short appearance and remove cancer from existence. Not hard to do if your God.

It doesn't make sense with all the good God could do in one short week end to end misery, that he stays so elusive. What is the point in making people suffer for thousands of years, all the while his ministers profess God loves us?

He doesn't even have to show up for a whole week end, he could wipe out disease and misery in the time it takes me to drink a cup of coffee.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
May 7th, 2017 at 1:00:46 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4980
I think wiping out misery is a little harder than you think. Remember, if God is to still allow us freedom and therefore the ability to love there is not much more that He can do besides provide us with moral laws, a perfect example, and the gift of forgiveness. Much more misery is cause by sin than cancer, the real problem with our world and the source of its misery is evil, selfishness, and the use of others to gain power, fame, or fortune. This is the opposite of love an we are free to choose it along with the misery it brings. I don't know how God can make us choose to do good without eliminating our freedom to truly love.
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