Long term miracle cures test

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May 22nd, 2017 at 1:20:04 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 1766
Quote: Wizard
Do ears count?

Quote: Luke 22:49-51
When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.



Well, since we have no evidence that the event described in the quote actually happened, no, in this case, ears don't count.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
May 22nd, 2017 at 2:08:43 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 107
Posts: 11127
Quote: Dalex64
Well, since we have no evidence that the event described in the quote actually happened, no, in this case, ears don't count.


If the event happened, Jesus had no skill
to reattach an ear, and he certainly didn't
do it with magic. He was an illusionist,
he did Copperfield tricks, not medical
ones.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 22nd, 2017 at 2:27:38 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 5062
Jesus cured a man with a withered arm, cured blindness from birth, those who were deaf and mute, cured paralyzed people, and raised people from the dead. However, I know this doesn't move you because there is not some scientific tests and proof for you that it happened. I would suggest you go to visit Lourdes in France. There you will be able to see and examine the detailed medical records for thousands of miraculous cures.
May 22nd, 2017 at 2:57:34 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 319
Posts: 10868
Quote: FrGamble
I would suggest you go to visit Lourdes in France. There you will be able to see and examine the detailed medical records for thousands of miraculous cures.


And I suggest a 24/7 webcam at Lourdes in France (*), plus a team of actual physicians who can perform, with permission from willing patients, before and after medical exams, to back all these claims up.


(*) I assume there are several in place already.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
May 22nd, 2017 at 4:26:43 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 5062
Quote: Nareed
And I suggest a 24/7 webcam at Lourdes in France (*), plus a team of actual physicians who can perform, with permission from willing patients, before and after medical exams, to back all these claims up.


(*) I assume there are several in place already.


There are actually. I have heard there are doctors there that are specifically tasked with examining miracles that happen there and determining if there are any other causes that could be attributed besides the supernatural.
May 22nd, 2017 at 4:58:15 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 319
Posts: 10868
Quote: FrGamble
I have heard there are doctors there that are specifically tasked with examining miracles that happen there and determining if there are any other causes that could be attributed besides the supernatural.


1) I believe you've heard so. That doesn't mean it is so.

2) It would be impossible to determine if there are any other causes, given how much we don't know.

I'll spare you the comparison to ancient times (yay!), and instead plug one new(ish) line of research. Say you infect 10,000 flies with some disease, one you know hos it affects flies. A large number of tem drop like flies, but a small fraction go on living.

Why?

And less important, what long-term effects are there?

The idea is there exists tolerance to some diseases.

Again, why?

It's an exciting new field in medicine. The latest strategy against antibiotic-resistant bacterial infections. But it might also lead to new anti-viral and even anti-cancer therapies.

3) You'll never be able to set up a proper double-blind, controlled study. It would be cruel and unethical.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
May 22nd, 2017 at 5:34:26 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 1766
Quote: FrGamble
Jesus cured a man with a withered arm, cured blindness from birth, those who were deaf and mute, cured paralyzed people, and raised people from the dead. However, I know this doesn't move you because there is not some scientific tests and proof for you that it happened. I would suggest you go to visit Lourdes in France. There you will be able to see and examine the detailed medical records for thousands of miraculous cures.


Jesus' disciples also performed similar miracles, so the question is, why does no one do it now, and why is that not the nature of the miracles attributed to those about to become saints?

The answer is, of course, that you are citing works of fiction as fact.

So, why are none of the modern miracles the curing of whithered arms, or the restoration of missing limbs?

Why are modern miracles improbable, but not impossible?

I've asked these questions before. Any answer that requires me to take the explaination on faith is both unsatisfactory and unconvincing.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
May 22nd, 2017 at 5:45:52 PM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 82
Posts: 1344
How about this one, a case of cancer that was miraculously cured. Findings were published in a medical journal.
May 22nd, 2017 at 5:59:32 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 118
Posts: 4995
Quote: Ayecarumba
How about this one, a case of cancer that was miraculously cured. Findings were published in a medical journal.


Seems to still be some problems with this.

Quote:
Schilsky said it isn't clear that all three lung growths were cancer, since only one was biopsied. And there are several reasons people get small inflammatory nodules in the lungs that might resolve spontaneously.
"The point here is that the primary tumor was treated," and that could have helped her immune system control any remaining cancer in her body, said Schilsky, who did not treat Toguchi. He based his comments on Chang's case report in the October 2000 edition of the Hawaii Medical Journal.
Rare cases of spontaneous remission, or regression, are reported, mostly involving melanoma skin cancer, kidney cancer or lymphoma _ hardly ever solid tumors like breast, prostate or colon cancers, Schilsky said.
"The bottom line is, it probably does happen. Obviously, it happens very rarely because it is the nature of cancer to grow, not to regress," he said.
No one has ever proven I am not God.
May 22nd, 2017 at 6:49:05 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 1766
The problem with cancer is you don't know if it was cured by divine intervention or by medicine, unless you want to believe that all cancer is only cured by divine intervention.

I mean, you pray to have the cancer cured. If medicine is going to take care of it, do they bother with divine intervention? If they don't intervene, and the cancer is cured, and you did pray, how do you know that they didn't intervene? You might think they did, whether or not they really did.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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