Long term miracle cures test
May 22nd, 2017 at 6:59:48 PM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 | Here's an interesting thought: What if spontaneous remission isn't rare, but rather it's very common? Everyone gets a fever now and then that goes away on its own, with no medication or treatment used. We can assume the immune system met an invader, reacted, and defeated it. So what if some cells become cancerous from time to time, but the immune system deals with them and you never even notice it? Except in some cases, for some reason, either the bad cells proliferate too quickly, or the immune system is depressed, or otherwise unable to beat back the cancerous cells? This would be incredibly hard to prove. you'd need to biopsy people, or animals, in random places at random but frequent intervals, then look for cancerous cells. I don't believe it, but it's an interesting thought experiment. There is some anecdotal evidence in cancer cases to the effect that remission happens after a mild bacterial infection. One hypothesis is that the infection "wakes up" the immune system, which then deals with the cancer cells. This strikes me as simplistic, but plausible. The question then being, why the immunes system does not attack the cancer cells, or not as aggressively, to begin with? Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 22nd, 2017 at 9:15:11 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
That's who I want for my doctor, one who believes people can be healed by the supernatural. That's the doctor to run away from as fast as you can. You 'heard' that? That's on the same level that you heard Jesus rose from the dead. It's just that somebody else heard it first and wrote it down so it looked more official. Not any more true, of course, just more official. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
May 22nd, 2017 at 10:12:46 PM permalink | |
Ayecarumba Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 89 Posts: 1744 |
Consider that you are giving more weight to the opinion of someone who did not directly examine the patient than the doctor who treated her. Is that faith? |
May 22nd, 2017 at 11:17:05 PM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18762 |
See below (particularly bolded part)
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Extraordinary_claims_require_extraordinary_evidence You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
May 22nd, 2017 at 11:27:26 PM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18762 | In my admittedly non-expert opinion the second doctor offered some "outs" as they say in poker that weren't considered by the original doctor which were in that paragraph I quoted. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
May 23rd, 2017 at 6:49:46 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Claims of miraculous cures suffer from the Carte Blanche problem. That is, when something not easily or readily explainable happens, it gets certified as a miracle. We know a great deal about the workings of the human body, and about diseases, and about how to treat them. We also don't know a great deal about all these things. For instance, do you know there are documented cases in humans of severed fingertips growing back? It's incredibly rare, no one know why or how it happens. What role does symbiotic bacteria play in disease? We're just beginning to find out. So once again "don't know" means "don't know." it doesn't mean a specific deity is responsible. Now, if you could get proof that a deity did it, that would be different. But how do you even go about it? Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 23rd, 2017 at 8:35:22 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | In regards to "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" I have a few quick thoughts. First of all, what is so extraordinary about the existence of a God? It is fairly obvious that something like a first cause or an unmoved mover is needed for our universe to exist. It would truly be extraordinary and we would need extraordinary evidence if we were to believe something truly strange and outlandish as an eternal material contingent universe. However, in regards to a creator this is not extraordinary. Everything we interact with and know has been created or formed and is contingent on something else. This is the most ordinary of things and the evidence is extraordinary. Secondly, we should look practically at this statement to see if it is livable outside of the scientific experimental realm. What evidence do we have that our coffee in the morning is not poisoned? This would be extraordinary and should require extraordinary evidence to ensure that I can safely drink it. The fact is that it would be impossible and unreasonable to apply this maxim to real life and to how we live our life. It is a good rule in the lab but it doesn't apply to life. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 23rd, 2017 at 8:38:51 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
That Evenbob is not your roommate? ;) Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
May 23rd, 2017 at 8:40:22 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Here is the site to the official website of the Office of Medical Observations in Lourdes. It looks like it is indeed true what I had heard. There is a whole team of doctors and experts who will examine any claim of the miraculous at Lourdes with great rigor and scientific expertise. It is a really interesting site. I didn't know that among the thousands of reported cures and miracles there are only 69 that have been declared miraculous by this official office. Of course not ever cure goes through the long process of being reported and examined by the office. Office of Medical Observations in Lourdes “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
May 23rd, 2017 at 11:14:06 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
Absolutely everything. It flies completely in the face of everything we know about how the universe works. A god is supernatural with supernatural powers. Look at the word, super-natural. It means outside the realm of the natural world. There is zero evidence for anything supernatural, James Randi still has his million dollars. For some reason you want the world ruled by superstition and magic. Why is that. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |