Where will Bitcoin be on 9/4/2018?

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9 members have voted

October 12th, 2017 at 11:25:39 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 850
Posts: 10146
Quote: SOOPOO
Can someone explain this 'energy use' thing to me?


There is some small energy use if you pay a bill with a Visa, but it is very minor,

Bitcoin’s trust-minimizing consensus has been enabled by its proof-of-work algorithm. The machines performing the “work” are consuming huge amounts of energy while doing so.

The ever increasing price of bitcoin motivates people (called miners) to run the machines to prove the transactions. They are being paid by getting new bitcoins which they hope will cover the energy cost and hopefully increase in value with passing time.

But if the value of bitcoin crashes, the energy cost may be higher than the bitcoins awarded. I am not sure what happens at this stage. Either the process will slow down incredibly or it will come to a stop. My guess is that it will slow down.
October 12th, 2017 at 11:39:56 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 7
Posts: 507
Quote: AZDuffman
The "miners" pay the electricity. When you buy the widget, an entry is made in the ledger. Said entry has to have a random number to verify it. The miners are solving the math problems to make that random number. The electricity to run the computers doing the hashing is who pays, and they get some Bitcoin as a fee as after all, we are not communists.
.


Who pays the 'miners'?
October 12th, 2017 at 11:58:42 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 110
Posts: 8633
Quote: SOOPOO
Who pays the 'miners'?


They are rewarded in new Bitcoin. No idea what happens when the last one is mined in 25-30 years. I'll be dead so not worrying there.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
October 12th, 2017 at 6:58:11 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 204
Posts: 4824
Quote: Pacomartin
The ever increasing price of bitcoin motivates people (called miners) to run the machines to prove the transactions. They are being paid by getting new bitcoins which they hope will cover the energy cost and hopefully increase in value with passing time.


Let me preface this by saying Bitcoin is not my area of expertise. That said, I thought the chance of mining a bitcoin when mining was related to both the cost of electricity and the value of a Bitcoin. As I understand it, the miners barely make a profit. I know one miner who quit because it just wasn't worth the bother. So, I claim miners are no more and no less motivated given the recent spike in cost.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
October 13th, 2017 at 12:39:41 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 850
Posts: 10146
Quote: Wizard
Let me preface this by saying Bitcoin is not my area of expertise. That said, I thought the chance of mining a bitcoin when mining was related to both the cost of electricity and the value of a Bitcoin. As I understand it, the miners barely make a profit. I know one miner who quit because it just wasn't worth the bother. So, I claim miners are no more and no less motivated given the recent spike in cost.


I suppose that depends on if he the miner is spending current dollars for equipment and electricity, while keeping the Bitcoins for future revenue. If margins are small if you have to sell the BTC to pay the bills, then the spike in value is little motivation. But if you have some way to pay the bills and are banking the BTC for the long term, then the recent spike could be motivational or demotivational depending on if you think it portends continued growth or if it is a bubble.

Quote: How Much Power Does the Bitcoin Network Use? By Danny Bradbury Updated October 05, 2017
The software that mines bitcoin is designed so that it will always take ten minutes for everyone on the network to solve the puzzle. It does that by varying the difficulty of the puzzle depending on how many people are trying to solve it. What this means is that the time taken to produce a bitcoin doesn’t vary – only the computing power used to produce it does. As more people join the bitcoin network and try to mine bitcoins, they use more computing power, and therefore more electricity, for each bitcoin produced.


These devices are sold on Amazon for about $4000 apiece.

October 29th, 2017 at 1:45:59 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 3193
I hadn't paid enough attention? I didn't know it was illegal? https://bitcoinist.com/michigan-man-busted-unlicensed-bitcoin-exchange-faces-jail-time/

I guess it's true what they say about not committing crime, "the government hates competition.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
October 29th, 2017 at 1:57:06 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 850
Posts: 10146
Banknotes and coin in circulation (12/31/2015)
Country Billions of Dollars
United States $1,424.92
Euro area $1,210.42
China ????
Japan $856.55
India $250.80
Russia $117.05
United Kingdom $103.09

PRELIMINARY UPDATED NUMBERS JUST RELEASED (Britain dropped by $10 billion with devaluation of pound sterling.

Banknotes and coin in circulation (12/31/2016) Billions of Dollars - Exchange Rate at end of 2016
$1,509.34 United States 1.00
$1,217.91 Euro area ?
$915.72 Japan 117.07
$196.49 India 67.95
$145.11 Russia 60.66
$103.00 (10/29/2017) @$6185.30 with 16,653,100 BTC -----------------------------------------------
$93.78 United Kingdom 0.81
$80.48 Korea 1208.50
$79.68 Switzerland 1.02
$71.23 Brazil 3.26
$68.71 Mexico 20.66
$64.40 Canada 1.34
$57.71 Australia 1.38
$54.16 Hong Kong SAR 7.76
$53.33 Saudi Arabia 3.75
$35.40 Turkey 3.53
$29.39 Singapore 1.45
$7.20 South Africa 13.68
$6.88 Sweden 9.06

Bitcoin is now ranked #7, china is not releasing hard numbers, but it is probably close to Japan.
October 29th, 2017 at 2:52:44 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 3193
Quote: Pacomartin
Bitcoin $103.00 billion (10/29/2017) @$6185.30 with 16,653,100 BTC


I remember when Bitcoin was supposedly had a larger cap than 8 currencies around the world.
Now it is ranked #8 and moving into 7th place.

In November 2016 India grapples withdrew 86% of cash in circulation. So it is possible that Bitcoin may soon have a market capitalization behind only USD, EUR, JPY and CNY.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. I hope you bought a bunch at 10$.

Meanwhile gold shifts sideways the whole time. Reality, is created by the observer, again.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
October 29th, 2017 at 3:03:28 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 3193
Quote: Pacomartin
In November 2016 India grapples withdrew 86% of cash in circulation.
That was incredible. Although it has happened throughout history. I think of the poor that didn't have access to banking and held onto their fiat with clenched fist as their life savings vaporized.

We can all be convinced that here isn't there, and take comfort in that, but it has happened before, here. Maybe for anyone that owns a smartphone digibux is the way to go? It seems that the price of everything is manipulated, hard to have faith in bitcoin as a currency, but for a speculation buy and sell it would have been a dandy.

I don't understand it, and according to that article it appears there is risk of going to jail for just selling it? I wouldn't do well in jail.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
October 29th, 2017 at 3:19:36 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 850
Posts: 10146
Quote: petroglyph
That was incredible. Although it has happened throughout history. I think of the poor that didn't have access to banking and held onto their fiat with clenched fist as their life savings vaporized.


According to Bank for International settlements, the cash in circulation was reduced by 60%.

12/31/2015 12/31/2016
6,325.68 89.25 INR 1,000 = $14.88
7,853.75 2,940.98 INR 500
1,577.83 2,528.01 INR 100 = $1.49
194.50 355.64 INR 50
98.47 203.15 INR 20
320.15 369.29 INR 10
36.80 36.45 INR 5 = 7.44 cents
16,407.2 6,522.8 39.76%
215.52 247.20 coins


If 86% of the value of cash in India was suddenly de-monetized until you could prove that you could trace where it came from.

Consider that the $50 and $100 are about 82% of the value of US cash in circulation.
Stats on 12/31/2016
76.51% USD 100
5.53% USD 50
11.74% USD 20
1.27% USD 10
0.94% USD 5
0.78% USD 1
0.18% other
3.05% coins