Flying to the antipodes with 24 friends

September 12th, 2017 at 7:09:02 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
Posts: 8747
The Airbus 350-900 (107 deliveries) has three variants
15,000 km normal
18,000 km ULR Ultra Long Range versions 170 passengers
20,000 km Corporate jet with 25 seats VIP configuration

So finally, for in the neighborhood of $400 million you can purchase a corporate jet for 25 passengers with a cabin 167' long 18.4' wide, 8' tall, and with 2900 square feet that can fly between any two points in the world. Given that much square footage, the head sheik would probably have a bedroom while and a corporate boardroom/dining room and a bunch of flat seats.

One corporate jet has been ordered, but 7 of a Airbus version that can only fly 18,500 km with up to 75 passengers have been delivered. Out of the 7, 4 are head of state aircraft for Kuwait, Italy, Thailand and Turkey.

As the flight distance from Sydney Airport (SYD) to London Heathrow Airport (LHR) is 17,039 kilometers, we would presume the ability to fly 20,000 km is simply for bragging rights.
September 12th, 2017 at 7:58:04 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 330
Posts: 11578
A bit related: When Concorde was retired, did any Middle Eastern potentates try to get one as a private jet?
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
September 12th, 2017 at 3:43:30 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
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Quote: Nareed
A bit related: When Concorde was retired, did any Middle Eastern potentates try to get one as a private jet?


There is a club that tried to get £120 MILLION to resurrect a concorde and make it available for charters.
http://www.clubconcorde.co.uk/index.php

I don't believe most of the super rich want to take on that kind of challenge of maintaining a 40 year old plane.
Supposedly 20 orders were placed with Aerion Corporation for a $120 million private supersonic jet to be delivered in 2023.


http://www.aerionsupersonic.com/
September 12th, 2017 at 3:56:15 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 330
Posts: 11578
Quote: Pacomartin
There is a club that tried to get £120 MILLION to resurrect a concorde and make it available for charters.
http://www.clubconcorde.co.uk/index.php

I don't believe most of the super rich want to take on that kind of challenge of maintaining a 40 year old plane.


I remember now one major item in the decision to retire Concorde was that Airbus, who inherited the program, would stop providing support. So the maintenance bills would have been HUGE :)

Quote:
Supposedly 20 orders were placed with Aerion Corporation for a $120 million private supersonic jet to be delivered in 2023.


I'd love to believe it will fly someday.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
September 12th, 2017 at 7:31:53 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
Posts: 8747
Quote: Nareed
I'd love to believe it will fly someday.

Mach 1 in air is often cited for 20 °C (68 °F) of 767 mph; but in the tropo-pause it is more like 660 mph.

The Sonic Cruiser was designed to fly at about 650 mph, but airlines prefer fuel efficiency over speed.
The cruise speed of an Airbus 319 is 515 mph.
The cruise speed of an Airbus 380 is 561 mph.
The cruise speed of a Gulfstream G650 is 562 mph for long range cruise or 595 mph for normal cruise
The cruise speed of the Concorde was 1341 mph. JFK-LHR is 3440 miles.
The cruise speed of the Boom Technology civilian supersonic transport aircraft is 1452 mph.

The Aerion business jet may aim for something lower, roughly 1100 mph over water and possibly 800 mph over land. There is a petition before the FAA to lift their prohibition of flying at speed greater than Mach 1 over land in the territorial USA. Initially Aerion will probably fly over China where there is no restriction, but they will keep speeds down in order to build a database of experiments where people regard the sound as no more irritating than distant thunder. The last thing they want to do is to irritate the populace so that China passes a similar law.

Boom technology will simply fly subsonically over USA land.

Mach cutoff is an an atmospheric refraction phenomenon that suggests that at flight above a certain level, any sonic boom created by an aircraft is refracted, or dissipated into something less than the known shock wave(s) generated by an aircraft that reaching the ground as an overpressure which creates the signature boom. The concept is that at speeds of Mach 1.1 to 1.3, the shock wave produced by an aircraft can be buffered by altitude and weather, resulting in an "evanescent wave" reaching the ground that "would sound much like distant thunder."

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Interpretations/data/interps/2016/Lourdes-AEE-1%20-%20(2016)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
September 13th, 2017 at 1:21:48 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 330
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Quote: Pacomartin
The Aerion business jet may aim for something lower, roughly 1100 mph over water and possibly 800 mph over land.


Much was made of Concorde's inability to fly supersonic over land. We all know this killed US transcontinental routes, as well as intra-Europe and Europe to the Middle East, intra-Asia routes, etc. But I recently found out a few other things.

Concorde flew to MEX from JFK, then back to JFK and then LHR. What I didn't know was that the JFK-MEX leg was flown using a longer route, hugging the coast as far as Florida then turning west over the Gulf, so it would fly supersonic. this made sense, but ti cost a lot in fuel.

the other thing is that BA did eventually make some profit from Concorde, bu AF didn't. Why? largely because there was much more demand for JFK-LHR as compared to JFK-CDG. But also because from Paris she had to crawl along subsonic until she reached the Atlantic.

So I'm thinking that no supersonic follow-on passenger plane, be it a private jet or a commercial one, will succeed until this over land prohibition is done away with.

And there's the matter of transpacific capability as well.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
September 13th, 2017 at 6:53:52 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
Posts: 8747
Quote: Nareed
So I'm thinking that no supersonic follow-on passenger plane, be it a private jet or a commercial one, will succeed until this over land prohibition is done away with.


AFAIK Gulfstream has decided that this restriction is a business killer, and has never pursued this development area as too risky. Aerion believes they can slow down to 110% to 130% of the speed of sound and and people won't mind. They intend to sell in China where there is no restriction. Boom thinks they can make a business flying over water, but they are hoping the restriction is lifted.

There were a number of supersonic military jets in United States up until the 1973 ban. The petition to the FAA insists very little research has gone into the barely supersonic range of speeds (110% to 130% of the speed of sound).

Douglas F4D Skyray (1951)
North American F-100 Super Sabre (1953)
Convair F-102 Delta Dagger (1953)
Grumman F-11 Tiger (1954)
McDonnell F-101 Voodoo (1954)
Lockheed F-104 Starfighter (1954)
Republic F-105 Thunderchief (1955)
Vought F-8 Crusader (1955)
Convair F-106 Delta Dart (1956)
Douglas F5D Skylancer (1956)
Grumman F11F-1F Super Tiger (1956)
North American F-107 (1956)
North American A-5 Vigilante (1958)
McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II (1958)
Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III (1958)
Northrop F-5A/B Freedom Fighter (1959)
Lockheed YF-12 (1963)
General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark (1964)
General Dynamics–Grumman F-111B (1965)
Grumman F-14 Tomcat (1970)
McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle (1972)
Northrop F-5E/F Tiger II (1972)