Ken Burns' "Vietnam"
September 12th, 2017 at 7:52:05 PM permalink | |
Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 239 Posts: 6095 | Given the mess we're still in with Iraq and Afghanistan, I don't see any way we could have truly won that war and got out. I used to say if he had bombed the north into submission, we could have won. However, I don't believe even this could have been a success now. Even if we dropped so many bombs we killed half the population of the North and let the South take control, there still would have been an insurgency hiding the jungle. We would be stuck there for years fighting it, as we are today with Iraq and Afghanistan. I truly hope we have learned our lesson about "regime change" wars, but my opinion of the memory of the American voter and American politician is not very high. Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber |
September 12th, 2017 at 8:23:06 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011 |
There were some career officers that were in the tail end of WWII and in Vietnam. Some of them say we had no intention of winning in Vietnam. It was a political and industrial/complex war with the intent of making a roaring economy, which it did. These officers say there was never a push to win like there was in the real war in the 40's. It was a hang in there and make the fat cats rich war. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
September 12th, 2017 at 8:24:28 PM permalink | |
kenarman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 14 Posts: 4511 |
They were probably hoping for a permanent split as happened in Korea. Knowing what we know now it is probably just as well that the US moved on and cut the losses since any kind of split country would probably not have been stable. "but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin |
September 12th, 2017 at 8:59:59 PM permalink | |
Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 239 Posts: 6095 |
Or we might be still be spending billions every year policing the border. Yes, ironic, that in retrospect the best possible outcome, other than never getting involved in the first place, was what happened. Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber |
September 13th, 2017 at 5:24:27 AM permalink | |
AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18209 |
We learned the lesson in WWII. To change a regime you have to totally destroy it and then take a decade of occupation to put in place what you want, then another generation of staying around to keep everything in order, and in the end you have a client state. If we were serious in Afghanistan we would be de-islamifying the place. Get missionaries to come in, like the old days. Win the hearts and minds of the yutes. This is no longer done, so you get what we have. I still wish we were pulling out and suckering Iran to get in there. The President is a fink. |
September 13th, 2017 at 6:58:00 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Pretty much. You can win a counterinsurgency war, but it takes decades
1) I recommend Barbara Tuchman's "The March of Folly." The last section is on Vietnam, from the close of WWII until the end. I'm about to finish my second reading of it. 2) America has this habit of starting wars and not making them a policy priority. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |
September 13th, 2017 at 7:02:29 AM permalink | |
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18762 |
Considering regime change in Nazi Germany, that system hadn't been in place for a long time-- it was really ideal for change IMO. Plenty of people were alive who still valued and remembered a different life. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
September 13th, 2017 at 8:03:59 AM permalink | |
AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18209 |
True, but in reality Nazism was mostly just German Nationalism on steroids. That ran back to the Prussians. I still say our leaders need to read "The Prince" if they want to get it right. The President is a fink. |
September 13th, 2017 at 8:04:04 AM permalink | |
Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 239 Posts: 6095 |
I think we have a rare agreement on something. Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber |
September 13th, 2017 at 8:34:57 AM permalink | |
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545 |
Not only that, but the lies propping up the regime were exposed. Consider the "sub-human" slavs did a thorough job grinding the German "ubermensch" army into a very bloody pulp. This partly explains why there were no leftover Nazi guerrillas carrying on after the country surrendered. the other part is that everyone was utterly exhausted from years of non-stop total war. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER |