Ken Burns' "Vietnam"

Quote: terapined

I knew about the history of France and Viet Nam
What i did not know and learned
Was how much we supported the French with our money.

France has always been there for the USA when they needed us.

Advancement of officers in the peacetime army is slow.
Officers want medals and promotions. In the early part of the war that meant urban blacks paid for those medals.
Later one USAF class of 20 freshly minted pilots got their orders. Nineteen for Vietnam, One for Germany. (His father was an air force General).
Goals of the troops, stay alive. Don't patrol aggressively. Hunker down and set an alarm clock for thenext time you have to radio in.
Goalsof the officers, fame glory wealth and fun sending men to search for Charley and get Destroyed.

As one reporter asked an officer... how does it feel to be The Redcoats?

I've always thought the history of the Vietnam War was fascinating, but I never knew much about the lead up to the war. The documentary was so informative.

It sounds like there was some enlightened folks who thought that Vietnam was not so much embracing Communism as it was shaking off Colonialism. I think the doc even mentioned that the Vietnamese even had a good opinion of Americans early on. I wonder what would have happened if we supported them and helped them establish a free and independent country with lots of information about the benefits of democracy and free market economies? Did the Cold War blind us into thinking Vietnam was a teetering domino?

Quote: FrGamble

I think the doc even mentioned that the Vietnamese even had a good opinion of Americans early on.

I've read that Ho Chi Minh and/or the Vietnamese nationalists modeled part of their declaration of independence on Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.

Did the documentary mention Ho Chi Minh tried to get the attention of the major powers at the Versailles conference after WWI? He was ignored.

It did seem to paint Ho Chi Minh in a positive light. Early on he seemed to push for an acceptance of the 17th parallel and to allow diplomacy win the day.

Quote: FrGamble

I wonder what would have happened if we supported them and helped them establish a free and independent country with lots of information about the benefits of democracy and free market economies? Did the Cold War blind us into thinking Vietnam was a teetering domino?

I doubt we were interested in teaching that. The mantra on leaders was, "He's a SOB but he's OUR SOB."

Vietnam is one of those little places in a strategic location. Borders China, and at the tip of Asia is just the place for a naval power to set up shop and pinch trade routes. We needed a client state, not a beacon of freedom.

Quote: Nareed

I've read that Ho Chi Minh and/or the Vietnamese nationalists modeled part of their declaration of independence on Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.

Did the documentary mention Ho Chi Minh tried to get the attention of the major powers at the Versailles conference after WWI? He was ignored.

They covered both points
I did learn last nite how Vietnamese used Thomas Jefferson writings. I did not know that.
They covered the Versailles conference. I already knew Minh was ignored. What I did not know was the impassioned letter he wrote to Wilson probably was not delivered. sad.

Interesting article I came across regarding part 1
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/burns-vietnam-documentary-promotes-misleading-history_us_59bf4922e4b0390a1564df2b

A lot of episode 2 covered
Battle of Ap Bac which I was unfamiliar with.
What a debacle.
Thinking about it, its like Black Hawk down all over again.

Quote: FrGamble

It sounds like there was some enlightened folks who thought that Vietnam was not so much embracing Communism as it was shaking off Colonialism.

they were trying to shake off colonialism for communism. There has never, NEVER, been a democracy in soth east asia in all of recorded history.
As Madame Nhu said in tonight's episode: We have use for your silly freedoms.
Vietnam was a Catholic country with Catholic officials and the seventy percent that were Budhists existed only to labor and pay taxes to Catholics.

This myopic view of America was that communism had to be contained ... one Washingto n official even commented that Vietnam as where the space shuttle started to slow ......... as if some peasant might hurl a spear into outer space. Idiots. It was "we didn't fight Hitler soon enough so now we have to fight every pipsqueak dictator everywhere in the world.

I remember having to study the VietCong
way back in 1962, in 8th grade, long before
we got into the war. Dr Thomas Dooley
was a bonafide American hero, a devout
Catholic, and has the dubious distinction of
starting the war by making up half the
stuff in his books about the region. A
lot of the tortures he reported at the hands of
the Commies never happened. Yet they
were believed and had a lot to do with
us getting involved there.

Dooley was even looked into being made
a saint by the Vatican. Too bad their
investigations found out he was openly
Gay, and probably a CIA spook as well.

But when we studied him in 1962 and
were forced to read his propaganda
books, he was a genuine hero.