Massacre in Las Vegas

October 3rd, 2017 at 3:20:11 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
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Bollards are often used at entranceways because insurance companies want to avoid paying for a smash and grab job involving a stolen jalopy but now architects are incorporating art work, horticultural installations and even bike racks as anti vehicle barricades.
October 4th, 2017 at 5:30:26 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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In our search for motives and why I heard a news reporter rip off a litany of things that couldn't be the problem; He had no big debt, no loss of a job, no loss of a loved one, no religious affiliation, no member of some hate group or terrorist orginization, no obvious signs of mental illness, etc...

What everyone is glancing over is his lack of religious affiliation. Yes it would explain it if he was a radical "Muslim" or a member of the Westboro baptist Church, but there could be something in his lack of any religious faith. A man who lives for video poker and has lots of money will not be fulfilled. He will be empty and feel that deeply. Without religion he might legitimately wonder why he is living and without the reinforcement of natural human morality and the encouragement to serve others and contribute to society to find happiness he might in some twisted way be open to the kind of evil he did. Religion can sometimes be the motivation to violence but the lack of religion is sometimes part of the cause as well.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 4th, 2017 at 5:56:41 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Face, as always thank you for your powerful posts. You have a gift for writing. I have never heard the "senseless" part of things like this coming from a place of literally numbness. I think we often use "senseless" to mean something that doesn't make rational sense or isn't logical, but you explain vividly that for some people it is not a lack of reason, but a lack of feeling or emotion for anything, that could be the biggest problem. Thank you for that insight.

My question is still how this numbness towards and in life could lead one to such fiery violence towards so many strangers. I can see how it can lead to other acts of violence, especially towards oneself. However, I don't see how it would naturally lead one to collect guns and plan to kill over 50 people from far away?!?

Another part of your post, Face, I found particularly moving was your comments about desiring to live life. I found myself nodding a lot as I read that section. Man was not meant for menial labor, at least not as our defining or lasting contribution. We are made for more and we feel it in our bones like you do. However, we can and need to do such things. So how does one survive in such situations? It rests on the employers to respect the dignity of the worker and significant challenges such type of work can have upon the employees. This means a good living wage of course, but it also means making sure there is plenty of time for recreation, and giving a sense to the worker the importance of what they are doing and what it means in the bigger perspective. Outside of work it is essential for the person to be in a loving family or a community that can give the same type of loving support as a marriage or a family. It is important to follow and rejoice in a persons passions and things that they love to do. Finally, I don't see how this life is possible for anyone without faith in God. Faith that reminds us of our worth, dignity, purpose, and that we are loved eternally.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 4th, 2017 at 6:52:55 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
In our search for motives and why I heard a news reporter rip off a litany of things that couldn't be the problem; He had no big debt, no loss of a job, no loss of a loved one, no religious affiliation, no member of some hate group or terrorist orginization, no obvious signs of mental illness, etc...

What everyone is glancing over is his lack of religious affiliation. Yes it would explain it if he was a radical "Muslim" or a member of the Westboro baptist Church, but there could be something in his lack of any religious faith. A man who lives for video poker and has lots of money will not be fulfilled. He will be empty and feel that deeply. Without religion he might legitimately wonder why he is living and without the reinforcement of natural human morality and the encouragement to serve others and contribute to society to find happiness he might in some twisted way be open to the kind of evil he did. Religion can sometimes be the motivation to violence but the lack of religion is sometimes part of the cause as well.


You continue to project your own feelings about what it takes to lead a moral life, achieve fulfillment, and be a contributor to society onto everyone else.

I also think you are reading too much into the statement - he had no religious affiliation, meaning just that he wasn't a radical muslim/christian/other. It isn't saying that you have to be religious to be a terrorist, or in debt, or out of work, etc, just that none of those things are indicators as to why he did it.

I can create 4 arbitrary (as in not exhaustive) categories here for individuals (or small conspiracies) -

Theists who commit crime in the name of their religion
Theists who commit crime who just happen to be religious
Athiests who commit crime in the name of atheism (a recent attack against muslims by an atheist in the name of atheism comes to mind)
Athiests who commit crime who just happen to be atheist

Dare we to enumerate how many events or how many deaths fall into each category over the past 50 or 100 years or so in the United States?

You do not need religion to prevent you from going on a mass killing spree, nor does being religious prevent it.
You do not need religion to be fulfilled.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
October 4th, 2017 at 7:02:37 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Dalex64

You do not need religion to prevent you from going on a mass killing spree, nor does being religious prevent it.
You do not need religion to be fulfilled.


I think the problem here is that I am using religion as a synonym for love. I view religion as nothing more than a loving relationship with God and others. If I was to say that you do need love to prevent you form going on a mass killing spree, that being in love prevents it, and that you do need love to be fulfilled - would you agree with that?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 4th, 2017 at 7:49:58 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
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Quote: FrGamble
Without religion he might legitimately wonder why he is living and without the reinforcement of natural human morality and the encouragement to serve others and contribute to society to find happiness he might in some twisted way be open to the kind of evil he did.


I think we can agree on this. However, the way I would phrase it is many people are comforted with the belief there is a kind man in the sky who loves you and you can spend forever with him after you die. What isn't to like? This is why all religions work -- because they all answer the tough questions with nice answers. However, some people are okay with that fact that we don't have real answers to the big questions and life is the product of just randomness. Most of these people are good people who are kind to others out of a belief in humanism.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
October 4th, 2017 at 7:58:27 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
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Quote: FrGamble
In our search for motives and why I heard a news reporter rip off a litany of things that couldn't be the problem; He had no big debt, no loss of a job, no loss of a loved one, no religious affiliation, no member of some hate group or terrorist orginization, no obvious signs of mental illness, etc...


1) it's way to early to draw conclusions when the people investigating the matter don't even have all the information yet.

2) Proforma: if you knew what this piece of shit in human form was about to do, would you have stopped him? Why didn't your gods do so?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 4th, 2017 at 9:02:11 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
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Quote:
Employees of the Starbucks inside the Virgin River Casino in Mesquite, Nevada, don't have fond memories of Paddock, telling the Los Angeles Times that Paddock would berate Danley during their regular trips to the coffee shop. Supervisor Esperanza Mendoza said Danley asked to use his casino card to pay for drinks, using points earned gambling, and Paddock would glared at her and said "with a mean attitude, 'You don't need my casino card for this. I'm paying for your drink, just like I'm paying for you." Paddock, she added, was "so rude to her in front of us," and "looked like he never slept because of the large bags under his eyes."

Paddock also didn't make a great impression with neighbors in both Reno and Mesquite. Several told the Post he was surly, including Elizabeth Tyee, who lived next door to Paddock in Reno. She said Danley traveled often, and was never at the house for more than 10 days at a time. Paddock was standoffish, she said, but Danley was always friendly and quick with a hug.


1st class major a**hole.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/people-who-knew-him-say-las-vegas-shooter-was-standoffish-berated-girlfriend-in-public/ar-AAsSnkB?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 4th, 2017 at 10:06:54 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
I think the problem here is that I am using religion as a synonym for love. I view religion as nothing more than a loving relationship with God and others. If I was to say that you do need love to prevent you form going on a mass killing spree, that being in love prevents it, and that you do need love to be fulfilled - would you agree with that?


No, I don't agree at all.

In addition to love, there is also fear, and respect, just to name two.

If you fear the consequences, be it damage to your immortal soul (if that is what you believe), or fear of mutually assured destruction, that could also prevent it.

As would respect - either respect for living things in general, or respect for people with other views.

You could also have empathy.

I also disagree that you need love to be fulfilled, in that only love can bring fulfillment and in that without love you can not be fulfilled.

Are you just playing word games to try to equate religion and love, and to elevate religion to the same perceived reverence that love gets?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
October 4th, 2017 at 10:47:42 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
It has been said several times that these psyche drugs are a common denominator with mass killings. IIRC, the Colorado theater shooter was on psyche drugs. I think it is a contributing factor, not to mention people that seek the prescription usually have mental problems already. https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/ The Vegas shooter was taking benzo's twice per day. The link say's 10mg twice per day, I think that is a lot, plus alcohol increases it's effect.

"Diazepam – better known by its brand name, Valium – is a sedative and muscle relaxer in the class of drugs known as benzodiazepines, which studies have shown can cause aggressive behavior in some patients. Chronic use has also been linked to psychotic episodes."
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW