Gun Control -- As usual discussed only after a massacre.

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10 members have voted

October 4th, 2017 at 5:03:55 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: FrGamble
It is time for me to make up my mind on this issue and there are many knowledgeable and passionate people on both sides so I think with your help I can hammer out my own opinion.
Here is the lump of molten metal I am beginning with:

Any type of rifle that fires a bullet as quickly as you pull the trigger is not needed in hunting or in target practice. Therefore I believe all rifles should require some action, like a bolt action or lever pump, in between shots and have a magazine capacity of no more than 5 rounds.

Hammer away.


I suppose someone else will hammer the history part, from Hitler to the Natives, or how many other Asian and South American examples there are to fill the books. So I'll leave that.

There's the lesser fact that it just increases my charges, and makes me a criminal though I have wronged no person and created no victim. And you'd be daft to suggest I just turn over a not insignificant portion of my net worth, but that's just one person, so not much of an argument there.

And I'm a bit tired, so i don't know if I've got an impassioned rant in me. I just know that guns account for ~12k homicides a year, and another 20k in suicides. The stats are black and white. They kill 0.009% of the pop every year. Handguns would most certainly be affected by your beginning stance, they kill (by homicide) ~5,800 a year. 0.001% of the pop. And rifles, ALL rifles, every single long gun that fires a solid bullet, from your .22sr's to your .50BMG, bolt, pump, semi, every rifle there is on this Earth, kills just about 300 people a year. 0.00007% of the population.

Anti's would strip the rights of 330mm Americans without a second though over the deaths of, reasonably estimated, <100 people? It's emotion run amok, emotion that is used for an agenda (admittedly, and with surety, on both sides), and I'll not be swayed by it. I have the right of defense, not given by the US, but owned by me by right of being a human being, and no entity shall take it from me.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
October 4th, 2017 at 5:18:28 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
I don't think it is possible or a good idea to take guns from anyone. I am talking about going forward not going backwards. Anyone can own and keep a gun they already have.

It might be just an emotional argument or gesture. And maybe it is statistically just a symbol, but I think it is an important one. How long will the stats you mention stay where they are? Why is America so disproportionally cursed with these gun massacres? We changed how we fly on airplanes after 9/11 and one could argue that too is just an emotional useless response. However, it is a response. We need to do something.

In regards to history it is simply impossible to imagine an armed populace fighting against the military or police. I think after some 200 years we can have a little more trust in our democracy and military to not expect to have to fight against them.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 4th, 2017 at 5:23:37 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
trust in our democracy and military to not expect to have to fight against them.


Wow, that's the same logic all dictators
who disarm the public use. Why not
just mind your own business and choose
to arm yourself or just be a victim. I
have lots of guns and am happy with
all of them.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 4th, 2017 at 5:29:16 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: FrGamble
Why is America so disproportionally cursed with these gun massacres?


I mentioned it earlier. The USA has always been a violent an war-making country. That bursts a lot of people's bubbles, but it is true. Add how much time we have been at war vs in peace. America had to tame a continent, then be in charge of keeping the peace in the world. Add in a feeling of helplessness to a controlling government, it will keep happening.

Yeah, I have a negative outlook. Since I have developed it I have been right far more than wrong.
The President is a fink.
October 4th, 2017 at 5:35:58 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: FrGamble
IIn regards to history it is simply impossible to imagine an armed populace fighting against the military or police.
That's probably what the people at Waco thought.

Or those at the Ludlow massacre, or any number of labor struggles where the NG was called in to quell them.
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
October 4th, 2017 at 5:40:52 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: AZDuffman
I mentioned it earlier. The USA has always been a violent an war-making country. That bursts a lot of people's bubbles, but it is true. Add how much time we have been at war vs in peace.
America has been at war 93% of the time since 1776. https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-has-been-at-war-93-of-the-time-222-out-of-239-years-since-1776/5565946
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW
October 4th, 2017 at 5:49:33 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Quote: FrGamble
It might be just an emotional argument or gesture. And maybe it is statistically just a symbol, but I think it is an important one.


It IS just an emotion gesture. It's "feel-good" that is not deserved, it's masturbatory. It's "Wee! I did something!" regardless of outcome. The Patriot Act is an embarrassment, a disgrace, and it disgusts me.

Quote: FrG
How long will the stats you mention stay where they are?


What stats? Gun murders? Go look, it's the easiest thing to find. Whether you look up gun violence, gun crime, gun murders, you'll see that but for a huge spike in the late 80's / early 90's, gun crime has trended down and is, and has been for some years, the lowest it's been since the late 70's. You can't spin this s#$%, it's black and white. Go look, and give me a logical explanation of why "something must be done".

Quote: FrG

In regards to history it is simply impossible to imagine an armed populace fighting against the military or police. I think after some 200 years we can have a little more trust in our democracy and military to not expect to have to fight against them.


*shudder*

I disagree.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
October 4th, 2017 at 5:54:24 PM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Quote: FrGamble
I don't think it is possible or a good idea to take guns from anyone. I am talking about going forward not going backwards. Anyone can own and keep a gun they already have.

It might be just an emotional argument or gesture. And maybe it is statistically just a symbol, but I think it is an important one. How long will the stats you mention stay where they are? Why is America so disproportionally cursed with these gun massacres? We changed how we fly on airplanes after 9/11 and one could argue that too is just an emotional useless response. However, it is a response. We need to do something.

In regards to history it is simply impossible to imagine an armed populace fighting against the military or police. I think after some 200 years we can have a little more trust in our democracy and military to not expect to have to fight against them.


I have to answer you Padre with something Paco had in a post a while back. Some people would sooner do the wrong thing then nothing.
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
October 4th, 2017 at 6:01:55 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: kenarman
I have to answer you Padre with something Paco had in a post a while back. Some people would sooner do the wrong thing then nothing.


I think this is where I am at.

The more I think about the low gun violence stats Face mentions the more I don't think they are convincing. Much less people percentage wise have been killed through hijacking airplanes but we responded and did something because of the sheer possibility of causing so much carnage. Some of these guns can cause unthinkable carnage and I think we should do something about it.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 4th, 2017 at 6:05:29 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Face

*shudder*

I disagree.


This almost seems like a strawman response or a hypothetical. Any time someone mentions gun control somebody will plod out Hitler or some other tyrant who disarmed the public. Brother if it gets to gunplay with the United States military there is no stockpile to help you. The key is not fight when your back is against the wall with what amounts to a pea shooter, it is to make sure we develop an educated citizenry that is involved in self governing.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
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