How To Survive: An elevated shooter if you are in an outdoor crowd

You see flashes from an elevated position 500 yards south west from you. You hear bullets ricocheting on the concrete, followed by the "pop-pop-pop" of gunfire. It takes a few moments for you to realize that it is gunfire and not fireworks, but it sinks in when an individual in the crowd of 15,000 around around you falls wounded...

Looking around you realize there is a large crowd in a fairly flat area bordered by a 12 foot tall chain link fence. Inside the fence are a large stage, steel structures supporting projection screens, lights and loudspeakers. There are also a variety of tents serving as sun shelters and vendor stands. There are portable toilets, and some vehicles on the perimeter. Beyond the fence, 200 feet away, are large hotels and other permanent structures.

You are there with a group of three others. What do you do?

What does it say that this is something Americans now need to worry about?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Beyond the fence, 200 feet away, are large hotels and other permanent structures.

You are there with a group of three others. What do you do?

IN Las Vegas the Luxor was probably 700' away from the main gate, but the complex was big enough that you probably would have difficulty getting to the main gate in the rush.

With over 20K people in attendance, I am guessing hiding behind the steel structures might just get you crushed. So I am going with go for a tent. While a tent is not going to stop a bullet, you are betting on the shooter firing where he can see people.

I wonder if MGM will permanently close the suite just to keep out the morbid people who will want to stay there.

Quote: Ayecarumba

What do you do?

Should have brought my Kevlar backpack plate to put over my head. Or a shovel.

Most of the people I heard said they
thought the shots were coming from
the crowd, they had no idea where
to run.

I have heard several interviews with people that figured out the direction they were coming when who made a run towards the Tropicana and pushed over the fencing at that end to get out of the venue. Hitting the ground was probably never the right thing to do once you knew you had an elevated shooter with automatic fire.

Face sure knows his guns he said right away from the first video that it was a bump stock not an automatic firing rifle just from listening to it on the news. That has been confirmed by the police now, not even sure I really understand what that is I am not a gun guy.

Funny you should ask. This my wife advised my daughter that if she were in such a situation she should fall to the ground, under the theory the standing position gives the shooter a larger target. I disagreed, saying I would run. My thinking is I want to minimize my time as a target. Maybe she is right, or neither of us, not my area of expertise.

In this situation, I assume the cars are within the fenced area. I would try to take refuge behind one of them, if I felt there were space. Unlike in the movies, I would not trust a tent, loudspeaker, or outhouse to stop a bullet. If hiding behind a car were not a choice I think my odds would be best being a contrarian and running towards the shooter. My thinking is everyone else will be running away and the shooter will be trying to maximize the body count and aim into the crowd. Of course, if I risked getting stampeded by going opposite of the flow of traffic, I would have to take that under advisement.

I tend to think the "three others" has something to do with this but I'm not sure what. Unless I were extremely close to these other people, as far as I'm concerned it is every man for himself. All four people are not going to be equally fast. If they try to stay together as a group, they will all have to go at the slowest person's speed.

I look forward to the correct answer.

I think that quickly identifying that the shootings are random rather than targeted is a key. All the soft covers, while providing opportunity to get out of the line of sight, do nothing to stop bullets or shrapnel from wounding or killing you.

Similar to Paco's suggestion, would trying to move as far away from the crowd as possible be a good strategy, even if meant moving toward the source of the gunfire? This assumes the gunman is spraying into the most concentrated part of the crowd. Being a small single target or a small group apart from the crowd gets the gunman to ignore you? That's not the way sardines or gazelles do it, but maybe it works against random shooters at a distance?

Edit: Just read the Wizard's post above. Have to admit, I don't know what the "right" strategy is. Hoping a crowd sourced discussion will come up with the most prudent strategy.

Quote: Pacomartin

I wonder if MGM will permanently close the suite just to keep out the morbid people who will want to stay there.

As long as they pay, who cares. I've stayed either in that exact suite or one directly above or below, when I was a pretty big roller at the Mandalay. Those end of the hallway suites are quite big, like 1200 square feet.

Quote: kenarman

Face sure knows his guns he said right away from the first video that it was a bump stock not an automatic firing rifle just from listening to it on the news. That has been confirmed by the police now, not even sure I really understand what that is I am not a gun guy.

I'll do my best to explain. I'll assume you have at least a basic level of understanding where guns are con... ahhh s#$%. Canadian.

Ok, from the top, then ;)

j/k. I assume by now every single person here knows how a semi-auto works. If not, I'll be happy to review.

Bump fire.
I'm a righty. Imagine I'm holding a rifle. My right hand is on the action, finger on the trigger guard, and I'm holding the rifle low near my hip. My left is up on the barrel out in front of me. Typical "skulking through the jungle" stance, like Forrest Gump. To bump fire, I would hold my right hand in the fire position, wrapped around the action with finger on the trigger, and I'd FREEZE IT. Make my hand as stiff as could be. With my LEFT hand, the one up on the barrel, I would pull the entire gun forward, allowing the stock to slide through my "frozen" hand and essentially "pull" the gun into my trigger finger. This would cause the gun to fire. Firing produces a recoil, which pushes the entire gun back just enough to clear your "frozen" finger and reset the trigger, and your constant forward "pull' with your off hand immediately brings the trigger right back to you and fires again. Repeat until you burn up 30 rds. Which, for my M4, takes fractions of one second. Brrrrt. There's $28 in a field.

Bump stocks are just a stock that does this for you. The stock is like a shock absorber with no gas, it slides in and out of itself with no resistance. It also has a fake trigger you can wrap your finger around to ensure it's in the proper position. It takes the practice out of bump firing as you don't have to train "freezing" your hand. You can hold on tight as you like and just pull forward. Brrrrt.