Will God Survive Science

February 26th, 2018 at 1:46:41 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
You know that the history of science is intertwined with arguably its greatest supporter, the Church. .


You overstate it, as usual.

"As far as the Middle Ages are concerned, to what extent the Church limited or encouraged academic scientific thought and what, if any, the effects may have been, if we analyse the situation closely, we might find that 'creative tension' would be a more accurate picture of the relationship between science and religion."

They didn't encourage or oppose it as much
as they controlled it. The Church has always
been about control. If science stayed within the
guidelines, they didn't oppose it. Saying
the Church was the greatest supporter of
science is a misdirection of the truth.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:48:01 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
I'm just looking at the facts, but I can go with creative tension. Science after all has limits. Ethics and morality need to guide science. Also science sometimes need to be reminded that its realm is the observable and measurable. It cannot test or pronounce on the supernatural, nor make supernatural claims. Likewise religion at times needs to be reminded that what its role and realm is as well.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
February 26th, 2018 at 8:48:15 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
I suppose I can repeat the same claims over and over again too.

Just because science has no explanation for certain events does not mean that a supernatural explanation is required or a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation.

Does God cause each and every curling stone to curl? There is no scientific explanation for why they do.

There is also no reason to select one supernatural explanation over any other. That is why we have so many religions with mutually exclusive beliefs.

Religion also therefore has no basis for testing or pronouncing on the supernatural, or making supernatural claims.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
February 26th, 2018 at 9:47:19 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Dalex64

Just because science has no explanation for certain events does not mean that a supernatural explanation is required or a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation.


If there is no natural explanation then a supernatural explanation is required. In the case of all matter, energy, space, and time coming into existence a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation. I feel this is self evident - a contingent thing cannot create itself or come from nothing.


Quote:
There is also no reason to select one supernatural explanation over any other. That is why we have so many religions with mutually exclusive beliefs.


Again I disagree. There are plenty of reasons to think an eternal, all-powerful, spiritual being is a better explanation that a giant supernatural turtle with the world on its back or a flying spaghetti monster. The reason there are so many religions has a lot to do with history, pride, culture, and sometimes an unwillingness to subject one's beliefs to science and reason.

Quote:
Religion also therefore has no basis for testing or pronouncing on the supernatural, or making supernatural claims.


I don't follow you here. Religion has a basis for testing and pronouncing on the supernatural and for making such claims. Some of it is based on revelation from the divine and as for testing and results one can look to the difference such things make in one's life for the better and the morals that under gird society.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
February 26th, 2018 at 10:41:26 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Therefore God causes curling.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
February 26th, 2018 at 10:42:05 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
I'm just looking at the facts, but I can go with creative tension..


And you think creative tension is a good
thing. It means, hey science, we the Church
have our eye on you, better stay within the
accepted guidelines or we'll crush you like
a bug because we know everything.

Science didn't flourish until the tension was
relaxed and you didn't fell threatened if
you pissed some Church nutcase off.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 26th, 2018 at 10:48:53 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
If there is no natural explanation then a supernatural explanation is required. .


Yeah, no. That's the kind of ridiculous
superstitious thinking that kept science
in the dark ages for so long. The Church
was absolutely incapable of saying they
didn't know something because their
egos were so severely swollen. So they
made things up to fill in the gaps and
proclaimed it the truth.

The supernatural is always the last
explanation on the list for anything.
It's so far down the list that science
will never get to it. Science will never
get to the point where they throw
up their arms and give up and blame
what they can't figure out on some
supernatural explanation.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
February 26th, 2018 at 10:50:11 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
If there is no natural explanation then a supernatural explanation is required. In the case of all matter, energy, space, and time coming into existence a supernatural explanation is the only possible explanation. I feel this is self evident - a contingent thing cannot create itself or come from nothing.

argument from ignorance

Quote:
Again I disagree. There are plenty of reasons to think an eternal, all-powerful, spiritual being is a better explanation that a giant supernatural turtle with the world on its back or a flying spaghetti monster.

strawman

Quote:
The reason there are so many religions has a lot to do with history, pride, culture, and sometimes an unwillingness to subject one's beliefs to science and reason.

selecting an explanation that is desired does not make something true

Quote:
I don't follow you here. Religion has a basis for testing and pronouncing on the supernatural and for making such claims. Some of it is based on revelation from the divine and as for testing and results one can look to the difference such things make in one's life for the better and the morals that under gird society.

circular logic
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
February 26th, 2018 at 10:59:40 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
There are plenty of reasons to think an eternal, all-powerful, spiritual being is a better explanation that a giant supernatural turtle with the world on its back or a flying spaghetti monster.


Well, while there is no evidence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, we do know that spaghetti, at least, does exist and is composed almost entirely of organic molecules. So it's more likely to exist than a "spiritual" being of uncertain composition.
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February 26th, 2018 at 11:39:11 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 25
Posts: 6227
Quote: FrGamble
I'm just looking at the facts, but I can go with creative tension. Science after all has limits. Ethics and morality need to guide science. Also science sometimes need to be reminded that its realm is the observable and measurable. It cannot test or pronounce on the supernatural, nor make supernatural claims. Likewise religion at times needs to be reminded that what its role and realm is as well.
If the church truly believed in their God, they would have no need for scientists. It has occurred to me, that the church employing scientists, amounts to what the church calls heresy. Does the bible not tell you all you need to know?

If you trusted God, you wouldn't get vaccines.
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