Will God Survive Science

October 18th, 2017 at 8:47:10 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
Not true, the Roman Emperor Claudius who reigned in 41 AD kicked out the Jews because of a controversy surrounding Christ. We have the accounts of the martyrdoms of the Apostles and their tombs, and the rest as they say is history, recorded history.


According to what I could find, the Jews were were expelled for aggressive missionary efforts. As usual, wikipedia provides a decent summary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudius%27_expulsion_of_Jews_from_Rome

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There were at least two expulsions of Jews from Rome before the reign of the Roman Emperor Claudius. In 139 BC the Jews were expelled after being accused of aggressive missionary efforts. Then in AD 19 Tiberius once again expelled Jews from the city for similar reasons.


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Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [the Emperor Claudius] expelled them from Rome.



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Louis Feldman states that most scholars assume that the disturbances were due to the spread of Christianity in Rome.[29] Dunn states that the disturbances Suetonius refers to were probably caused by the objections of Jewish community to preachings by early Christians; Dunn moreover perceives confusion in Suetonius which would weaken the historical value of the reference as a whole.[30] Lane states that the cause of the disturbance was likely the preachings of Hellenistic Jews in Rome and their insistence that Jesus was the Messiah, resulting in tensions with the Jews in Rome


What are you saying that this proves?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
October 18th, 2017 at 9:05:25 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
That early Christians, those who knew Christ (Chrestus) had experienced the Resurrection and spread the faith in just a few short years arrived in Rome to their synagogues to preach about the Messiah. It is another source outside the NT speaking of Christ and the amazing spread of Christianity.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 18th, 2017 at 9:21:38 AM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
That early Christians, those who knew Christ (Chrestus) had experienced the Resurrection and spread the faith in just a few short years arrived in Rome to their synagogues to preach about the Messiah. It is another source outside the NT speaking of Christ and the amazing spread of Christianity.


The article there says nothing about them 'experiencing the resurrection'.

It says they were expelled for aggressively pushing their beliefs onto others. It doesn't say why they were doing it, what motivated them, and certainly doesn't prove, document, or corroborate that anything supernatural occurred.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
October 18th, 2017 at 9:39:31 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Why do you think these early Christians risked their lives, status, and wealth to aggressively tell people about Jesus? Did they want everyone to follow and form a religion about a dead carpenter who was crucified between two thieves? No, they experienced the Resurrection of Jesus their Savior and would not and could not stop speaking about it.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 18th, 2017 at 9:48:26 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
An edict from the Emperor to kick out a whole group of people about 7 years after Jesus Christ was crucified in a far off portion of his empire is indeed confirmation.


In that case, there's this temporary eye sore in Paris which will come down in a few weeks. i can let you have tons and tons of iron for less than the price of scrap. Interested?


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Yes, but freedom does allow me think differently from you in regards to the nature of marriage and human sexuality.


Yes, you can think whatever the Hell you like about your religion. I couldn't care less.

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It never allows either of us to deny equal rights, oppress, or mistreat anyone. However, it does allow me to share my sincerely held beliefs (religious or not) and engage in conversation with others.


You can share whatever you want. But you cannot practice your beliefs when the rights of other people are involved. the day you cease opposing the rights of minorities based on your beliefs, I'll believe you're sincere about it.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 18th, 2017 at 9:49:32 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
Why do you think these early Christians risked their lives, status, and wealth to aggressively tell people about Jesus?


Oh, that's an easy one: because they knew eventually their descendants would be able to oppress minorities, distort science, and cut taxes for the rich.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 18th, 2017 at 10:54:05 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Why do you think these early Christians risked their lives, status, and wealth to aggressively tell people about Jesus?


Why did all the followers of Jim Jones
drink the Kool Aid? People are gullible,
and if they're also ignorant, you can convince
them of almost anything.

You're doing what you always do, FrG, you
build the credibility of your religion around
urban myths and half truths, and then pretend
it's actual facts. It just makes you look sillier
and sillier. At least Buddhists admit they
practice the ideas of their religion and could
care less if any actual events ever happened.

Christians are the polar opposite. It totally
matters that all the facts are correct; virgin
birth, miracles, son of god, resurrection. The
ideas of your religion always take a back
seat to the ridiculous supernatural claims
it worships.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 18th, 2017 at 12:17:34 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18556
Quote: Nareed
It's not a choice.


I was actually referring to people's right to self identify instead of society forcing it upon them.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 18th, 2017 at 1:13:56 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Nareed
Oh, that's an easy one: because they knew eventually their descendants would be able to oppress minorities, distort science, and cut taxes for the rich.


I think it is fair to say that would have been the furthest thought to the early Christians.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 18th, 2017 at 1:31:14 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Quote: FrGamble
Why do you think these early Christians risked their lives, status, and wealth to aggressively tell people about Jesus?

Everyone's got a theory. Can you show that yours is the only plausible one? The problem with yours is a lack of evidence. It is all in one book, published by the very people whose idea it was that they were trying to promote.

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Did they want everyone to follow and form a religion about a dead carpenter who was crucified between two thieves?

Of course not, that's why the invented all of the supernatural stuff about a normal carpenter philosopher who was crucified between two thieves.

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No, they experienced the Resurrection of Jesus their Savior and would not and could not stop speaking about it.


Why did they risk their lives? You have a core group of people trying to start a religion, overthrow the current government, replace it with one of their own. The usual political reasons. As you have observed, religion and government were the same thing, and the only successful governments were backed by religions that people believed in. After this core of people, after the supernatural stories were written down, the people after them actually believed it!

So you have group A trying to form a religion+government, group B who believes the religion, and voila, a whole bunch of people willing to die for their beliefs.

Now is probably a good time to point out that your disbelief about the motives of a group of people doesn't disprove it. It's the "I can't believe that's true therefore it isn't" fallacy, a.k.a. Argument from incredulity.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan