Will God Survive Science

October 18th, 2017 at 1:31:24 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
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Quote: FrGamble
I think it is fair to say that would have been the furthest thought to the early Christians.


From the stridency of the loudest, most obnoxiously Christian politicos, I gather it was the only things Jesus ever talked about.
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October 18th, 2017 at 3:13:16 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: Ayecarumba
An example is the push by many school boards to indoctrinate school children in a system that presents a spectrum of sexual identities,


You have it backwards. the indoctrination comes from the links you've quoted.

Quote:
There's no scientific basis for this as truth, yet the left calls it, "progress" and anyone who objects is a "bigot".


I don't know what courses on human sexuality and/or gender identity contain. I do know you can tell a child they can choose their gender and their sexuality all day long, and twice on Sunday, for however long you want, and it wouldn't matter at all. Neither sexuality nor gender is a choice, any more than favoring one hand is a choice.

You can amputate the left hand of every left-handed person in the world, and not one will become right-handed.

You can also repress sexuality and persecute those who stray from pure heterosexuality, and you won't turn a single person straight, either.

What is a choice is how you will deal with people who differ from the norm. Will you respect their rights? Will you respect their dignity as a person, indeed as, per your beliefs, having been made in the image of God? or will you fall to fear and hysteria and oppress and persecute them?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
October 18th, 2017 at 5:18:41 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Dalex64
Everyone's got a theory. Can you show that yours is the only plausible one? The problem with yours is a lack of evidence. It is all in one book, published by the very people whose idea it was that they were trying to promote.


What book are you talking about? The history books? Yes, they all point to the fact that early Christians gave up everything to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ. It is not just the Bible that talks about this but every history book. To determine their motivation you might want to use deduction. What did these early Christians hope to gain by spreading the Gospel? They gave up everything, why? Do you think it plausible that they gave it all up because they were lying and wanted to deceive everyone?



Quote:
Of course not, that's why the invented all of the supernatural stuff about a normal carpenter philosopher who was crucified between two thieves.


Again you say this so confidently when you know it doesn't make any sense. Why invent supernatural stuff up at all? Why try to start this religion? Why give up everything to do this? Why didn't they ever recant? Why does it still grow?



Quote:
Why did they risk their lives? You have a core group of people trying to start a religion, overthrow the current government, replace it with one of their own. The usual political reasons. As you have observed, religion and government were the same thing, and the only successful governments were backed by religions that people believed in.


Christians had no desire to overthrow the current government, where do you get that? Christianity is unique in that it is not tied to a state or a culture it is not Jewish or Gentile, Roman or Greek, it is Catholic, which means universal. That later on governments adopted Christianity is not mean that they were the same thing, at least in the Church's eyes. The early Christians had no desires for power or wealth or prestige. Please remember they were following a poor man who proclaimed the greatest among you must be the slave of all. You are very much mistaken in your understanding of early Christianity. I think I even remember sharing with you in our disdain for how quickly the Roman Empire fell to Christianity and made it popular and powerful to be Christian, in many ways this did damage to the pure message of the Gospel. [edit: sorry, I thought I was responding to Nareed]

Quote:
So you have group A trying to form a religion+government, group B who believes the religion, and voila, a whole bunch of people willing to die for their beliefs.


No, you have people who love Jesus and want to save souls not form a government or anything like it.

Quote:
Now is probably a good time to point out that your disbelief about the motives of a group of people doesn't disprove it. It's the "I can't believe that's true therefore it isn't" fallacy, a.k.a. Argument from incredulity.


There is a reason any thinking person would be incredulous about everything you are saying above.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 18th, 2017 at 5:25:02 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3687
Done.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
October 18th, 2017 at 6:17:13 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
To determine their motivation you might want to use deduction. What did these early Christians hope to gain by spreading the Gospel? .


What does any convert religion hope to
gain by preaching their doctrine. Islam,
Mormons, Hare Krishna, Scientology,
many others, including Christianity.
They hope to convert people and grow
the religion, simple as that. Never trust
a religion that tries to convert you,
they lie and distort and twist words to
get you into the door. Christianity
is the worst of them for using
these tactics. Jesus and his 'free' gift,
what a lie. There is nothing free about it.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
October 19th, 2017 at 7:43:57 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: FrGamble
Christianity is unique in that it is not tied to a state or a culture it is not Jewish or Gentile, Roman or Greek, it is Catholic, which means universal.


Do you know about Ambrose, the Bishop of Milan, and his pet emperor Theodosius I, and their war against the remaining Pagans in Rome?

How about the American Taliban like Roy Moore and their enablers?

And let's not forget the dozens of major "denominations" currently in vogue, with their many subdivisions, which for some reason are no longer called "heresies."


There's nothing wrong with holding lofty, unrealizable ideals. they might help you rise anyway, while you pursue them. But not if you think you already meet such ideals.
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October 19th, 2017 at 9:34:49 AM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Nareed

There's nothing wrong with holding lofty, unrealizable ideals. they might help you rise anyway, while you pursue them. But not if you think you already meet such ideals.


This reminds me of my favorite quote, "Shoot for the moon and you will fall among the stars!"
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
October 19th, 2017 at 11:04:22 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
This reminds me of my favorite quote, "Shoot for the moon and you will fall among the stars!"


It's a shame to see somebody so intelligent
waste their life on something as ridiculous
as Christianity.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 8th, 2017 at 4:16:56 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Went to a great conference today about faith and science. I was amazed at the list of priests who were significant contributors to science:
(spelling is probably wrong for most names I had to write them down quickly and they are in no particular order)
Niels Stensen, founder of geology and discovery of sedimentary rock and fossils
Marin Mersenne, one of the fathers of acoustical study
Christoph Scheiner, discovery of sunspots
Giovanni Baptista Riccolalli, discovered Coriolis force, mapped the moon
Francesco Grimaldi, first to talk about refraction of light
Benedetto Castelli, father of hydraulics
Bonaventura Cavalieri, mathematician and advanced calculus
Lazzaro Spallonazani, great biologist
Julius Newlend, super chemist
Rene Just Hauy, founder of crystology
Bernhand Bolzano, one of the greatest logicians and mathmaticians
Gregor Mendel, Father of genetics
Guisppe Piazzi, discovered the first asteroid now the drawf planet Ceres
Angelo Secchi, astrophyisics
Georges Lemaitre, astrophysics and first proposal of the Big Bang Theory

Pretty impressive list and of course this is just the priests who made huge contributions to science and it doesn't include the huge list of faithful believers in God like Newton, Kapler, Boyle, Faraday, Descartes, Pascal, etc. etc. etc....
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
November 8th, 2017 at 5:25:08 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
I was amazed at the list of priests who were significant contribu..


You forgot about the first priest, Jesus,
and his contributions to science. Virgin
birth, walking on water, turning water
to wine, healing the sick, and, of course,
the science of raising himself from the
dead.

Your religion is a superstitious myth from
an era that's long gone. Quit trying to bail
out the boat, it's a lost cause.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.