Thoughts on the Flat Earth folks

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November 12th, 2017 at 5:25:09 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 75
Posts: 1601
Recently I had about had it from being inundated by suggested pro-flat earth videos every time I went on you-tube. Were these clowns taking over the world or something? Then I figured out that I was getting these suggestions because I was looking at you-tube while signed in to google. I signed out and the suggestions disappeared. Whew!

I have found them fascinating in their shrewdness, but also their boldness. It just has to be the case that some are made by people who know better but have ulterior motives for manipulating suckers, including running ads, getting people to donate, etc.

It seems to me that the old saying "don't believe everything you read" has to be relearned every time there is a new technology. Honestly, I think people in general internalized the wisdom of that when it came to books and other things on paper. But then some new way of communicating comes along, and people forget again. Talk radio. The internet generally. And now, you-tube in particular, which is said to be a boon for the flat-earthers.

You just wouldn't think it would work to put a video out there that not only ignores the obvious, but actually flaunts the obvious, and by obvious I mean obvious overwhelming logic to the contrary. The last video I saw a part of [this before realizing I was summoning up yet more] actually labeled itself something like "edge of the world discovered" and actually showed a Niagara Falls in the Extreme as a tease for clicking on the video. Well, not to waste time taking up the argument, but really, isn't it obvious that the very first argument against a flat earth is that no one has ever seen the edge? And you are going to label your video like that?

I honestly think no one gave much thought in ancient times about whether the earth was flat until some of the Greeks [3rd century BC it seems] started pondering that the earth must orbit the sun and not vice-versa; out of this thinking, surely, also came the idea of a spherical earth. So when Biblical stories about Creation were written down, there was next to nothing about it; just some comments about God making solid foundations for the world. Ironically, then, it is a fact to say that the Bible does not claim the earth is flat! Yet it must be true that the flat earth folks are primarily motivated by religious objection to a spherical earth concept.

Why do I say that? It has to be true that anyone looking further into it has to ask "where is the edge"? And "how can circumnavigators of the world do so" without turning around? Well, the answer for the concept has to be that God does not want anyone to see the edge, or see that there is an infinite earth that just seems finite, so when you start across the Pacific trying to wind up in a different hemisphere God secretly turns you around and fools you into thinking you circumnavigated.

Extreme irony then that the first video I saw was one touted on WoV , and boy was it full of the F-bomb. You have to really wonder about that one.
The light at the end of the tunnel is often a freight train coming the other way! per Fleastiff
November 12th, 2017 at 6:39:37 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 4984
For a while there it was customary for each American astronaut to formally join the Flat Earth Society as an ultimate joke.

While ancient scientists and men of faith may have had heated disputes I'm sure the average person realized that a ship at sea was first observed as masts and realized it was the curvature of the earth that was involved.

As to youtube... heck, remember when MH-370 disappeared and even civilized people started talking about a UFO? There is no limit to what people will believe if they really want to believe it.
November 12th, 2017 at 6:47:06 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 119
Posts: 5345
Quote:
God secretly turns you around and fools you into thinking you circumnavigated.


Well...there's this:

Quote:
When lost in the desert or a thick forest terrains devoid of landmarks people tend to walk in circles. Blindfolded people show the same tendency; lacking external reference points, they curve around in loops as tight as 66 feet (20 meters) in diameter, all the while believing they are walking in straight lines.

Why can't we walk straight?


https://www.livescience.com/33431-why-humans-walk-circles.html
No one has ever proven I am not God.
November 12th, 2017 at 7:10:22 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 4984
Remember that traitor who escaped from prison and ran all night only to discover he was back near the prison. Authorities, knowing he had been gone for eight hours, started the search further away than that "hippie sunning himself on a rock". The pranksters who make "crop circles" often use a cap with a sighting piece on it make sure they can trample crops in a straight line.
November 12th, 2017 at 7:10:22 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 4984
I don't know if "Facilitated Communication" would be considered a new way to communicate but there were surely zillions of people who embraced it despite its being an obvious fraud.
November 12th, 2017 at 2:24:50 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
Posts: 8737
Quote: odiousgambit
I have found them fascinating in their shrewdness, but also their boldness. It just has to be the case that some are made by people who know better but have ulterior motives for manipulating suckers, including running ads, getting people to donate, etc.


In the 1600s protestants began circulating the myth that people in the Middle Ages believed the Earth was flat. The knowledge that the earth was basically a sphere was discovered by ancient Greeks. The campaign was basically an Anti-Catholic propaganda because Catholics controlled most of the education in the Middle Ages. Today if you take a poll most people will tell you that the Catholic monarchs, Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain did not want to finance Colombus because they believed the world was flat and that he would sail off the edge.

No one in F & I's court believed the world was flat, they just said the distance to Asia was so vast that nobody with the ships of the day could sail that long and survive. Of course, they were correct, but nobody knew there was more land than just a few islands in the Western Hemisphere.
November 12th, 2017 at 2:41:08 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 330
Posts: 11556
Quote: Pacomartin
The knowledge that the earth was basically a sphere was discovered by ancient Greeks.


I think it goes farther back than that.

What a Greek did, though well into the Ptolemaic period in Egypt, was measure the circumference of the Earth using two sticks and some trigonometry. But that was around 3rd century BCE.

Quote:
The campaign was basically an Anti-Catholic propaganda because Catholics controlled most of the education in the Middle Ages.


Ironically, the King James Bible does state the Earth is flat :)

Quote:
No one in F & I's court believed the world was flat, they just said the distance to Asia was so vast that nobody with the ships of the day could sail that long and survive. Of course, they were correct, but nobody knew there was more land than just a few islands in the Western Hemisphere.


If the Western hemisphere did not contain the Americas, chances are Columbus and co. would have starved en route to the Indies, and no one would have heard from them again. Given the knowledge of the time, the Portuguese had the more sensible idea, which was to find a way around Africa if one existed.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
November 12th, 2017 at 7:18:28 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 744
Posts: 8737
In 1485, Columbus presented his plans to King John II of Portugal.
On 1 May 1486, Columbus sought an audience from the monarchs Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile. They refused to refund the project, but to keep Columbus from taking his ideas elsewhere, and perhaps to keep their options open, the Catholic Monarchs gave him an annual allowance of 12,000 maravedis and, in 1489, furnished him with a letter ordering all cities and towns under their domain to provide him food and lodging at no cost.

Quote: Nareed
Given the knowledge of the time, the Portuguese had the more sensible idea, which was to find a way around Africa if one existed.


As you can see nobody really funded him until the Portuguese discovered the Cape of Good Hope on 12 March 1488.

After that King Ferdnand was willing to take the limited risk, as it was clear that the Portuguese were going to get to Asia first.
November 12th, 2017 at 7:20:42 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 50
Posts: 4984
I think there is a difference between discoveries being made and general acceptance of them.

At least the Arabs had "traveling scholars'. I forget the term for them but they wandered about visiting the wealthy discussing with them learned matters.

Take the discovery of lemons and limes for staving off scurvy. It took decades for the practice to be adopted. Anti-septic practices in medicine were fought against quite steadfastly.

So if ancient Greeks discovered something it is only possible that it became well known.

I can not imagine anyone really thinking the earth was flat but there was certainly a time to be "Politically Correct".

The Silk Road was long and often dangerous but Europeans eventually found ways to reach the spice sources. Even along the spice road there were inns that had a central courtyard for the caravan's animals, strong gates, thick walls. These were often the start of settlements that grew into cities. The best collection of ancient glass seals is at Cornell University and it is clear that there was a rudimentary 'insurance' for lost cargoes with compensation that shows such spices to have been of tremendous value even before they reached European buyers.
November 12th, 2017 at 7:42:40 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 111
Posts: 11818
Quote: Fleastiff
Take the discovery of lemons and limes for staving off scurvy. It took decades for the practice to be adopted. Anti-septic practices in medicine were fought against quite steadfastly.


A hospital doctor discovered and proved with
scientific methods that washing your hands
between surgeries and childbirth cut the
infection rate by 90%. He was laughed at
by his colleagues and almost run out of
the profession. 25 years later washing hands
was standard practice.

People hate change and will rebel against it
every time. Both radio and TV were considered
passing fads by many people and not at all
taken seriously. Mark Twain thought the
telephone was a joke and would fail miserably.
Why would he possibly pay money to speak
to his doctor on a phone, when he could walk
there for free.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
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